Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
19 Posts

Mare Nostrum: Empires» Forums » General

Subject: Can someone please brief me on the aftermath of the Ishtar Gate? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Marcin Mościcki
msg tools
Where is Ishtar's nipple??!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So far I lived in the belief that the Salomon solution of including both versions, at least for european editions has been implemented. This seemed to be confirmed by the normal version of the card appearing on photos from people getting their game. But now Polish backers report they received exclusively the censored version, which might be a minor annoyance in itself, but coupled with countless mistakes in shipping, to say nothing about how the campaign, the 'non-priority' backers and publishers of localized version where handled (including the game being available for sale long before the ship with backers' copies departed), it puts me in a defiant mood.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Turner
United Kingdom
Farnham
Surrey
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This may well qualify for the most esoteric BGG post of the month.
13 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sergio Macias
Spain
Esplugues de Llobregat
Barcelona
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Censored version only in the spanish edition. I would like to thanks the US fellas who pushed for a censored version, so they wouldn't risk fainting at the sight of a pair of breasts, scarring their children for life or be considered perverts by their families and friends.
23 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
chris thatcher
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Censored version only in the spanish edition. I would like to thanks the US fellas who pushed for a censored version, so they wouldn't risk fainting at the sight of a pair of breasts, scarring their children for life or be considered perverts by their families and friends.


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Townshend
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There is only one version of the card. There were originally supposed to be 2, but only the clothed version was ever made. There wasn't a version of the game printed with the unclothed version, so nobody (on any continent) received one.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Magic Pink
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Victor Mancha wrote:
Censored version only in the spanish edition. I would like to thanks the US fellas who pushed for a censored version, so they wouldn't risk fainting at the sight of a pair of breasts, scarring their children for life or be considered perverts by their families and friends.


ironic that you're already proving there's a problem.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aernout Casier
Netherlands
Nijmegen
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drammattex wrote:
There is only one version of the card. There were originally supposed to be 2, but only the clothed version was ever made. There wasn't a version of the game printed with the unclothed version, so nobody (on any continent) received one.

This was due to decision by Asyncron (who own the rights to the game), not by Academy Games. I know because I asked them a few weeks ago
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sergio Macias
Spain
Esplugues de Llobregat
Barcelona
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Magic Pink wrote:
Victor Mancha wrote:
Censored version only in the spanish edition. I would like to thanks the US fellas who pushed for a censored version, so they wouldn't risk fainting at the sight of a pair of breasts, scarring their children for life or be considered perverts by their families and friends.


ironic that you're already proving there's a problem.


Yeah, there's certainly a problem. I thought that was clear.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marcin Mościcki
msg tools
Where is Ishtar's nipple??!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ahh, the other Salomonic/Putinesque solution: nobody gets it!
I wonder if what I saw was a home-made alteration then... I don't put much of attention to kickstarters in the period between campaign and the game arriving at stores, so I might remember something wrong.

I don't know if its ok to feel better that at least in this I wasn't short-changed by Asynchron, or to be annoyed about the change rather than final state of things, but at least it saves me the trouble of a year-long process of getting replacements from Acadamy... I hope so at least, didn't go through the list of all componenents yet.

Sorry for not providing the context - if anybody oblivious to it is still reading, here is the original Ishtar card (goddess of fretilitly and sexuality), together with the current, 'improved' and 'family-friendly' version based on feedback:

To many, at least on this side of Atlantic, it was another small symbol of losing the ideological battle for public norms to what can seem like an arbitrary, very inconsistent, selective and downright baffling set of rules.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Howard Massey
United States
Wichita
Kansas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Make the card available at the BGG Store laugh

[ just kidding Aldie]
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marcin Mościcki
msg tools
Where is Ishtar's nipple??!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think that would actually be a good idea. It's not like it's depicting anything as off-putting like the sculptures on the temples of the times...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thaddeus MacTaggart
Netherlands
Almere Buiten
Flevoland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I seem to be missing Ishtar alltogether!

In what box/expansion is she supposed to be?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Björn
Germany
Herne
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
She is one of the cards in the Atlas expansion.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rob W
United States
Arizona
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Victor, have you actually played the expansion? I honestly don't understand why everybody is making such a big deal whether there are or are not boobies on the card. Personally I am in the family friendly camp, but the card comes into play so, SO, SO rarely that it is an utter non-issue. The card only comes up if you play with the expansion, and if you play with Ishtar's city, and if someone actually completes the objective and if when they draw from the deck, that card happens to come up. That's a lot of ifs.

IN MOST GAMES, THE CARD WON'T EVEN COME INTO PLAY, BREASTS OR NOT!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paweł Bedz
Poland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The problem is that someone said we will get both versions... And by someone i mean AG/Asyncron... They promised to ship both versions so you can use the one you like/want more... They just lied to us. I will never again back anything from AG, and when i will see Asyncron... Back it with 1USD and do some PR in coments... Telling whole truth about how they managed Mare Nostrum campaign... Beside shipping issues (why non-english versions are shipped now, when many backers from other countries have this game for months?) there were other issues, stupid delays and... No (promised) boobies! devil
2 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marcin Mościcki
msg tools
Where is Ishtar's nipple??!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Porkins_ wrote:
I honestly don't understand why everybody is making such a big deal whether there are or are not boobies on the card. Personally I am in the family friendly camp


I can speak only for myself, and while I respect your view, I'm vehemently opposed the appropriation of the term 'family-friendly' to mean one, and only one thing: no hint of sexuality. For someone outside of strict puritan influence, even when brought up in strictly catholic environment, this is a bizzare selectivism. Especially when the society's and industry's answer to the problem 'nipples are bad' is covering them with strands of hair, or ridiculously sexualized outfits.
This is 17th century painting over the works of renessaince masters all over again, or ortodox jew/islamic attempts to stick to the exact words of their scriptures by seriously bending the circumstances that are commonly regarded as 'law loopholes' by the outsiders (this is not a criticism, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone - just bringing up that this way of thinking seems strange to a lot of people).

The greater evil is the reaction resulting from this inhibition in widespread oversexualization of virtually all female characters in fantasy gaming, which somehow is deemed much more appropriate. If, in the popular media, we were able to accept sexuality as a normal aspect of reality, and instead put stress on not letting it dominate, we could have female characters which are both naturally sexual, and some which aren't. The teenagers will get to see their boobies anyway, and by enforcing strict taboo we produce the overeaction and risk of going much further when actually breaking it than one'd might in a more balanced environment.

I for one would love to play a fantasy miniature game with female characters in realistic outfit and of various proportions. By all means, lets have the 'red sonya' archetype in a game with Conanesque barbarians, but if the character is supposed to be nun, or a paladin, she could look the part as otherwise I feel like playing with a product designed in full to appeal to inhibited male teenagers sexual fantasies.


The problem here was that the ilustration wasn't erotic in the first place, nothing a 5 yo should be embarrased about ("back then people dressed differently, kid"), and the game is targeted towards older audiences anyway. What happened is a portion of american backers deemed that inappropriate, and Academy got cold feets/made the proper business decision of averting the risk.

I get it the US is still the primary market for board games and thus the produces are careful to fit in cultural norms, but I don't have to be happy about it, especially from the game of a european author, from a european publisher, happening in antic europe, and when the producer took our money with the promise of a compromise. So this was another small slap on the face to the 'group C' as I belive we were categorized,
sending message of not caring about this minority of customers, AFTER taking their money. I got used to it, understand the business perspective and generally oppose backers' attitude of entitlment, but these situations make me rething why I bother in the first place. One thing is for sure, Ishtar was the last straw, I will never buy anything from Asynchron, and be unlikely to back a campaign by Academy Games in the future.

Finally this is another lost cause to the view of 'board games are for children', just as the view that 'comic books are for children' doubtlessly deprived us of many works of art or at least mature (not in the pornographic sense, but subjects discussed) entertainment. I am not personally interested in the whole genre of erotic games, but yearn with all heart for more adult view on the world, such as in Dead of Winter, Time Stories, because playing contemporary games, despite level of intellectual engagement often limiting it to near-academic circles, still feels like limiting one's literature only to superman and spider-man comic books.

/private rant off
17 
 Thumb up
4.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Geppo Muzzak
Italy
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Not really a rant, an opinion... I share, by the way.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rob W
United States
Arizona
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
@Marcin - thank you for sharing your opinion in a mature and respectful manner while also respecting my opinion. I realize that I am probably in the minority. Furthermore, I'm generally even more conservative than most other people here in the US. I understand that (many) others do not share my opinion, so in order to give the respect to others for their opinion that I feel I deserve with my opinion, I was perfectly happy with the "we'll include both" solution.

I still cannot understand why the communication in this whole campaign has been so abysmal. Soooo many issues could have been averted if AG/Asynchron would have provided actual information (not: "we're playing your game and it's awesome!!")
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrea Cecchetti
Italy
Navacchio
PI
flag msg tools
mb
Everybody complaing about Ishtar cards. What has Medusa that deserves less?Please, uncensored breasts also for her.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.