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Band of Brothers: Texas Arrows» Forums » Rules

Subject: Tank with move counter & opfire: -4 modifier for moving? rss

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Aswin Agastya
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Hi All.

Suppose I have a tank which moved in previous turn (it has move marker). Then in the current turn, it Op Fires. Does it get the -4 prof modifier for "after moving to a new hex"?

What about tanks that in previous turn moved less than 1/3 its MP, Op Fired? Does it considered to have moved in the next round and gets -4 modifier if it Op Fires?

I'm pretty sure they get the -1 prof modifier when turning before OpFire because the turning is done at the same turn...
 
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Dave Webster
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Sevej wrote:
Suppose I have a tank which moved in previous turn (it has move marker). Then in the current turn, it Op Fires. Does it get the -4 prof modifier for "after moving to a new hex"?

No. It did not fire after moving to a new hex that turn. In the second paragraph under Move Counter on pg 7 of the rulebook it states that the Vehicle executes its action normally (there is no penalty).

Sevej wrote:
I'm pretty sure they get the -1 prof modifier when turning before OpFire because the turning is done at the same turn...

Yes, but in this case it did occur in the current turn (and no movement was involved or the -4 penalty would apply instead).

edit: underscore added for emphasis.
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Aswin Agastya
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I'm not sure about the second paragraph. The Vehicle executes its action normally, but that is *after* the move counter "is removed when the Vehicle is chosen for an action the following turn".

The thing is with the current modifier, it's implied that OpFiring when moving is slightly easier that normal shooting when firing. I think this way since the move indicator indicates that the vehicle is constantly on the move between turns (hence, it is harder to hit by its opponents).

Consider this situation (if opfiring after moving the previous turn doesn't get the -4 prof):
Moving, then shooting against a moving target: -5 prof
Opfiring (whether after moving or not) against a moving target: -2
 
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Dave Webster
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I don't fully understand your post, particularly about OpFiring being easier than "normal" shooting, but the essence of your question might be whether or not using (unmarked) OpFire qualifies as actually choosing an action during the turn, resulting in the Move counter being removed prior to resolving the OpFire. I believe that it does qualify because it results in the firing unit being marked as used. And if it didn't qualify, when would the Move counter be removed?

I'm guessing that the rules are trying to both minimize the artificial nature of sequenced movement and encourage WWII tank tactics. Most tanks had poor stabilization and could not accurately fire while moving (hence the -4 prof penalty). If the crew spotted a target while moving (especially an approaching enemy tank) it would quickly stop, take aim, and then fire (or run!) In game turns, this means first removing the Move counter, and then taking undesignated OpFire at -2 vs a moving target.

Of course, I could be totally mistaken
 
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Aswin Agastya
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In essence, what I was trying to say is, that opfiring (-2) is preferable than assault firing (-4), especially against moving targets where assault firing is even worse (-5) while opfiring prof mod stays the same.
 
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beresford dickens
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The op firing mod already has enemy movement 'baked in', as Jim would say, because you can only Op Fire at a moving target.

Yes it is harder to hit a moving target if you are moving as well.

You remove a Move marker when a unit is selected for an action - so technically when you initially select the unit, you remove the marker, and if the unit moves you put the marker back. So if you use 'creeping Op Fire (1/3 or less of movement points) you end up with a Move marker AND an Op Fire marker.
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Aswin Agastya
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beresford wrote:
Yes it is harder to hit a moving target if you are moving as well.


But would it be harder to hit a moving target in reaction (opfiring) if you are moving as well? If yes, research does show that opfiring when moving against a moving target is easier than making an assault fire against a moving fire, I rest my case.

The "baked in" modifier is opfiring vs moving target. Nothing says about the moving opfiring unit.

Remember, my issue is not about "firing a target with a move marker" vs "opfire", but rather "doing opfire when marked with move marker i.e. moving". I mean, you do get the advantage when having a move marker, even if you haven't moved that turn.
 
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Jim Krohn
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Quote:
You remove a Move marker when a unit is selected for an action - so technically when you initially select the unit, you remove the marker, and if the unit moves you put the marker back. So if you use 'creeping Op Fire (1/3 or less of movement points) you end up with a Move marker AND an Op Fire marker.


Minor correction - you do NOT get the move marker if you move less than 1/3 of your MPs and then get marked Op Fire. The creeping movement(or caterpillar movement) represents a vehicle slowly creeping into position while looking for threats, which is why it gets marked Op Fire.

It is obviously moving very slowly and methodically, which is why it does not get a move marker.

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Jim Krohn
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Quote:
Remember, my issue is not about "firing a target with a move marker" vs "opfire", but rather "doing opfire when marked with move marker i.e. moving". I mean, you do get the advantage when having a move marker, even if you haven't moved that turn.


Being marked with a Move marker does NOT mean that the vehicle is still moving. Instead, it represents a Vehicle that has recently changed positions, which is why you get to keep the marker until you select the unit in the following turn.
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Aswin Agastya
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Jim Krohn wrote:
Quote:
Remember, my issue is not about "firing a target with a move marker" vs "opfire", but rather "doing opfire when marked with move marker i.e. moving". I mean, you do get the advantage when having a move marker, even if you haven't moved that turn.


Being marked with a Move marker does NOT mean that the vehicle is still moving. Instead, it represents a Vehicle that has recently changed positions, which is why you get to keep the marker until you select the unit in the following turn.


Hmm, okay I misunderstood about that. But it seems to me its much-much better now for Russian tanks to capitalize line of sight and rely on opportunity fire instead. Much more so if they are defending. With their proficiency, assault fire is like... 10% chance while opportunity fire could be 30-40%. While still not very high, that's like tripling or quadrupling their chance of scoring a hit.

 
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Jim Krohn
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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That's intentional. They were especially clumsy in the attack. Of course, it comes down to timing. They move into range/position and might miss on their fire, but now they are in position. If the German does not respond in some way, the Russian will get off a shot next turn, possibly not even needing a prof check.

Quote:
But it seems to me its much-much better now for Russian tanks


This did not change in the new edition. It is the same as it was.
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