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Subject: Any one ever consider making cards and rules for a variant 11th conference? rss

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Bernie Roessler
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Perhaps there was something on Consim World. Any thoughts/suggestions on the possibility?
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Bruce Gazdecki
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Just curious, what would it represent, post war disscussions?

 
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Dan Huffman
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If Hitler had gotten the bomb, it certainly would have prolonged the war. The 11th Conference would represent a longer war effort. Along with the variant, maybe it could include "only have the 11th conference if both Axis nations are not conquered." or some such thing....maybe if one is conquered you don't do it.

Cool idea, though.
 
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sloop hmsstarling
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In my recent Three-Conference Training Game session report that ended with Stalin on the verge of invading Japan at the end of the 10th Conference, Germany having surrendered on the 8th Conference, I mused on the prospects for more conferences.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1631459/stalin-wins-big-...

The end game in that session was crying out for another conference to bring the Axis to total surrender.

My first thought on the 11th Conference would be to use the Conference 10 cards again, reshuffle them and pick one at random, although if Conference 10B was picked for Conference 10 (Atlee elected PM so no Churchill), then use 10B again, because I think that once elected, Atlee wouldn't have been overturned in only a few months. If either or both Germany and Japan have not surrendered by the end of Conference 11, go to C12, same as C11, shuffle or keep 10B in effect if it came into effect either in C10, or randomly in C11, continue in this manner until Germany and Japan have both surrendered.

Card 10B obviously puts Churchill the player at a disadvantage, but so be it, it was the will of the people, however ill advised for Great Britain that seems to have been from the perspective of modern observers of the political scene.

It would seem innocuous enough to continue putting Pol-Mil 1/1 into conference per card 10B if that card is the active C11, C12, ... card, although it might be called something other than Vietnam partition for game narrative purposes, or the Pol-Mil arena could be mixed up a little by picking one of the four issues randomly if C10 continues as the operative card.

Once Germany and Japan have surrendered, it's all over, no more conferences, get out Twilight Struggle and carry on hammer and tongs! And then when you get to 1989, well break out your copy of 1989, and carry on some more!! Then after a peaceful(?!) decade presided over by G.H.W. Bush and W. Clinton, break out Labyrinth plus Awakening, and finally after all that by then we'll have Gene's Mr. President to carry on, and on, and on, and perhaps even to look back, T.R., A. Lincoln, J. Polk, yes J. Polk, I'm hoping for a James K. Polk historical variant, but alas I'm no doubt a P500 of 1 on James K.!

Jan
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Bernie Roessler
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Right, there would only be a 11th conference if both Axis Powers have not surrendered, but that's true of any conference. Thanks J for the input. I would think an ideal would be to construct 2 sets of conference 11 cards (and perhaps further though anything beyond 12 should be auto lose for all players don't you think?) one set for Atlee in power and one set if Churchill remains. I see there is a set of Truman graphics to pimp out the game. Do we need Atlee graphics too?

By the way Gene B recently mentioned GMT has plans to develop a historical version of Mr. President putting you in T.R.'s shoes!
 
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Rex Stites
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I guess I don't see what an 11th conference adds. The game isn't about an unconditional surrender by the axis. If you get to the end of conference 10 without that occurring, it's probably because one (or more) of the players thought it was in their best interest in order to win the game.
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Bernie Roessler
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It's really a suit to taste thing. The war in the game would be fought until unconditional surrender unless one wanted to add separate peace/conditional surrender rules which would be a tar baby. For some of us, ending the game with the war still in progress, while fine from a game play point of view, leaves out the play of a historical possibility. One way to handle a possible variant but keep an unfinished war as a possibility would be to start rolling a die if the war continues after conference 10. A die result within a certain range ends the game anyway and you do the end game scoring at that point.

And maybe it's just the desire for more Churchill.
 
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Rex Stites
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I've always considered condition-3 at the end of conference 10 to represent the end of the war. It's just a different end than historical. Rather than the unconditional surrender that happened historically it's a surrender that is something less than unconditional. The Axis still loses; the terms of the end are just different.
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Greg Wilmoth
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You might want to take a look at this thread over in the General section entitled "The Historical Agendas of the 10 Conferences." I added information on the "Big Three" Foreign Ministers Ministers Conferences that took place after the war--in September 1945 in London, December 1945 in Moscow, April 1946 in Paris (now with the French at the table), and New York in November 1946. The bare bones are there if you want to build on them.
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/20005242#20005242
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Bernie Roessler
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Interesting. Thanks for posting that. I tried looking them up online but there's not much information. You wouldn't know if they had any codenames would you? Codenames may have been unnecessary since historically the war was over.
 
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Greg Wilmoth
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I haven't found any codenames for them. I think you're right; the war was over and codenames were unnecessary. I got the information for my post from the Wikipedia entry for "Council of Foreign Ministers." There is an additional entry for the Moscow Conference in December 1945, but apparently none for the others. None of the articles listed any codenames.

Beyond that there are some primary source documents on the web, such as the Joint Communique from the Moscow Conference on the Library of Congress website, and the report by U.S. Secretary of State Byrnes on the London Conference in October 1946 on the Avalon Project website at Yale University. But I don't know of any books or articles on the overall history of the Council of Foreign Ministers. That said, I'll keep an eye out and post something if I find some.

I suppose you could create a variant that included a new class of issue counters that get introduced as the game goes on and are worth VPs to the player that captures them. They might include the peace treaties with Italy and the minor axis powers, UN control of atomic energy, and issues in Korea and China. Heck, you could even add a few for conferences during the existing game when the conditions are right, such as disposition of the Italian Fleet, the eastern Polish border, and a French occupation zone in Germany.

I don't know what extra issue counters might do to the game balance. Another problem might be is that if there are too many of them, the players could end up dispersing their efforts in the conferences. Also, at least for the current conferences in the game, you could argue these issues are already abstracted in the Pol-Mil counters. Food for thought.
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Bernie Roessler
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For what it's worth here is an initial offering for conferences 11 and 12. My idea is if conference 10 has Atlee winning the election or election status uncertain, Churchill is removed from the game in further conferences and Atlee is treated as the UK leader. Subsequently
there are two set of 3 cards for each conference which are identical except for the green (British) text. I plan on making graphics for each card but only after feedback from my playgroup if no one else. I made up the codenames.

Post Potsdam Conferences
If after the 10th conference both Axis Powers have not surrendered each player chooses to continue the war or seek terms of less than unconditional surrender. Add 2 to the number of players voting to end the war for a modified total and roll 1d6. If the result is equal to the modified total or less, the game ends at that point. Repeat the same procedure after the 11th conference but this time add 2 to the number of those voting to end the war. If both Axis Powers have not surrendered by the end of the 12th turn all players lose.

London: Comet November 1945

Card A If Churchill Reelected.

Britain:
Senior Statesman: Put 1 US Production Issue on conference table.

Soviet Union
Clear Waters: Murmansk Convoy. +1 USSR Production.

USA
Security failure: Place Atom Bomb Research on conference table on Soviet Track space equal to 1d6.

Grey
Foreign Aid: Remove 1 US Production in aid to Europe.

Political
Power Struggle: Each player rolls 1d6, on a 1-3 gain 2 clandestine networks, on a 4-6 gain 3 clandestine networks. These are placed as desired in the War Phase.

Card B if Churchill Reelected.

Britain
Senior Statesman: Put 1 US Production Issue on conference table.

Soviet Union
Stalin Stays in Moscow: Cannot use Stalin during this conference to advance an issue (may still debate).

USA
Strategic Bombing: US player may permanently remove 1 Axis Army reserve token of choice from the game this turn after the Axis deployment phase.

Grey
Foreign Aid: Remove 1 US Production in aid to Europe.

Political
Provisional Government Dispute: Roll 1d6, on a 1-3 roll that # of times on Pol-Mil table , remove a political alignment marker from those locations. 4-6 no effect.

Card C if Churchill Reelected.

Britain
Royal Navy Redeployed: Place 1 naval support marker during the Production Allocation Phase at no cost.

Soviet Union
Stalin Stays in Moscow: Cannot use Stalin during this conference to advance an issue (may still debate).

USA
Strategic Reassessment. Place US Directed Offensive Issue on conference table.

Grey
New Administration: Put Global Issue on conference table.

Political
Settling Scores: Roll 1d6, on a 1-3 roll that # of times on Pol-Mil table, remove all clandestine networks from those location, 4-6 no effect.



Card A If Atlee Elected.

Britain
Domestic Rebuilding: UK loses 1 Production Point.

Soviet Union
Clear Waters: Murmansk Convoy. +1 USSR Production.

USA
Security failure: Place Atom Bomb Research on conference table on Soviet Track space equal to 1d6.

Grey
Foreign Aid: Remove 1 US Production in aid to Europe.

Political
Power Struggle: Each player rolls 1d6, on a 1-3 gain 2 clandestine networks, on a 4-6 gain 3 clandestine networks. These are placed as desired in the War Phase.

Card B if Atlee Elected.
Britain:
Defer Strategy to Allies: Place UK Directed Offensive issue on conference table.

Soviet Union
Stalin Stays in Moscow: Cannot use Stalin during this conference to advance an issue (may still debate).

USA
Strategic Bombing: US player may permanently remove 1 Axis Army reserve token of choice from the game this turn after the Axis deployment phase.

Grey
Foreign Aid: Remove 1 US Production in aid to Europe.

Political
Provisional Government Dispute: Roll 1d6, on a 1-3 roll that # of times on Pol-Mil table , remove a political alignment marker from those locations. 4-6 no effect.

Card C if Atlee Elected.

Britain
Royal Navy Redeployed: Place 1 Naval Support marker during the Production Allocation Phase at no cost.

Soviet Union
Stalin Stays in Moscow: Cannot use Stalin during this conference to advance an issue (may still debate).

USA
Strategic Reassessment: Place US Directed Offensive Issue on conference table.

Grey
New Administration: Put Global Issue on conference table.

Political
Settling Scores: Roll 1d6, on a 1-3 roll that # of times on Pol-Mil table, remove all clandestine networks from those location. 4-6 no effect.

Moscow: Total December 1945

Card A If Churchill Reelected.

Britain:
American Preeminence: Must use 1 Production on Front of US player’s choice.

Soviet Union
Captured Resources: May place 1 offensive support marker at no cost during Production Phase.

USA
Politics keep Truman in Washington: Cannot use Truman during this conference to advance an issue (may still debate).

Grey
Occupational Forces: Place 2/2 Pol-Mil Issue on conference table.

Political
Power Struggle: Each player rolls 1d6, on a 1-3 gain 2 clandestine networks, on a 4-6 gain 3 clandestine networks. These are placed as desired in the War Phase.


Card B If Churchill Reelected.

Britain
Politics keep Churchill in London: Cannot use Churchill during this conference to advance an issue (may still debate).

Soviet Union
Captured Resources: May place 1 offensive support marker at no cost during Production Phase.

USA
Foreign Aid: Remove 1 US Production in aid to Europe.

Grey
Command Crisis: Soviet Player may place Theater Command issue of choice on conference table.

Political
Greek Turmoil: Roll 1d6, on a 1-3 roll remove all clandestine networks in Greece. On 4-6 remove a political marker.

Card C If Churchill Reelected.

Britain
Politics keep Churchill in London: Cannot use Churchill during this conference to advance an issue (may still debate).

Soviet Union
Honoring Pledge: Must use 1 production on Far East Front.

USA
Foreign Aid: Remove 1 US Production in aid to Europe.

Grey
Command Crisis: Soviet Player may place Theater Command issue of choice on conference table.

Political
Greek Turmoil: Remove all Soviet clandestine networks from Greece, then roll a 1d6. On a 1-4 place a British clandestine network, on a 5-6 place a US clandestine network.



Card A If Atlee Elected.

Britain
Domestic Rebuilding: UK loses 1 production.

Soviet Union
Captured Resources: May place 1 offensive support marker at no cost during Production Phase.

USA
Politics keep Truman in Washington: Cannot use Truman during this conference to advance an issue (may still debate).

Grey
Occupational Forces: Place 2/2 Pol-Mil Issue on conference table.

Political
Power Struggle: Each player rolls 1d6, on a 1-3 gain 2 clandestine networks, on a 4-6 gain 3 clandestine networks. These are placed as desired in the War Phase.


Card B If Atlee Elected.

Britain:
Klaus Fuchs Spy Ring: Place Atom Bomb Research on conference table on Soviet Track space equal to 1d6.

Soviet Union
Captured Resources: May place 1 offensive support marker at no cost during Production Phase.

USA
Foreign Aid: Remove 1 US Production in aid to Europe.

Grey
Command Crisis: Soviet Player may place Theater Command issue of choice on conference table.

Political
Greek Turmoil: Roll 1d6, on a 1-3 roll remove all clandestine networks in Greece. On 4-6 remove a political marker.


Card C If Atlee Elected.

Britain
Aid to Moscow: Put UK Production Issue on conference table d-6 places on Soviet Track on conference table.

Soviet Union
Honoring Pledge: Must use 1 production on Far East Front.

USA
Foreign Aid: Remove 1 US Production in aid to Europe.

Grey
Command Crisis: Soviet Player may place Theater Command issue of choice on conference table.

Political
Greek Turmoil: Remove all Soviet clandestine networks from Greece, then roll a 1d6. On a 1-4 place a British clandestine network, on a 5-6 place a US clandestine network.



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Greg Wilmoth
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Looking forward to reading how this turns out!
 
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