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Subject: Recommend me a board game for 4 ppl historical diplomacy rss

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Ste M
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Hi.
Could you recommend me like the subject.
I recently get interested in this kind of game like ASL or other.
I read the best are:
empires in arms
here I stand (dunno how much diplomacy here)
Advanced third reich
THe republic of rome (?)

I am looking for historical game better (this is the only things I can sacrifice since I come from a Warhammer background I want something that reflects reality)
Must be for 4 ppl.
Lenght are in balance with how much is good.
That is complex in a way that covers a lot of little facet of realism (Eg moving troops morale
Must have a component of diplomacy among player.
that is findable and not OOP (if OOP and PNP is available it's ok)

Thank you!!!!

EDIT:
In the end I have bought A distant plains and also Virgin queen because I think is similar to Crusader Kings II one of my favourite games, because:

assassination
marriage
wide type of decisions to make
ransom
historical period

All the other games listed I thought are less similar to that game, unless I overlooked some games.

THanks to everyone!!!
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Simon Millar
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Pax Romana, is back in print. Great game.
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Dave Boschen
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Triumph and Tragedy but alas it's 3 players.

What about the COIN series? Andean Abyss etc...
 
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Ste M
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Thanks I will look into pax romana.. How much randomness of dice And diplomacy is in
 
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Ste M
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How is coin different from wargame. And how much randomness and diplomacy is in?
 
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Etien
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You may wish to check out Joan of Arc by Tilset. It can handle 3-7 players. It is area-control with attractive components and an aspect of diplomacy and military conflict. Tilset is out-of-business; however, a relatively inexpensive copy can be obtained from the BGG marketplace. Beware, this game took us around 8 hours to complete with 7 players.
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Andy Daglish
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War of the Ring (Second Edition) [War of the Ring (first edition)]. Reality is the millions of dollars of sales and the numbers on both its Geek pages. Excellent four player, so long as you remember on which sides of the table the enemy is seated.

Successors (third edition). A classical experience, not a competition.

Angola

Quartermaster General – Victory or Death: The Peloponnesian War

Pax Porfiriana

A Brief History of the World

Geronimo

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Rex Stites
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Stefano1234 wrote:
Hi.

here I stand (dunno how much diplomacy here)


There's quite a bit, and it's very important to a player's success in the game.

There are a lot of events that only benefit certain powers. The odds of the correct power being dealt that card is not great. As a result, there's a big impetus to negotiate to get your "events" played on your behalf--or to have "bad" events for you played for Ops instead of the Event.

Beyond that, the game has formal negotiation periods when players can negotiate formal alliances, exchange of territories, exchange of captured leaders, etc.

In short, any player who keeps to himself and doesn't engage in any negotiations is likely to be at a great disadvantage.
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Colm McCarthy
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An older game, but easily found and pretty cheap to pick up is Origins of World War II. Plays up to 5. Lots of diplomacy. It's a fun game, and deserves a reboot. Probably not as complex as you outline, but definitely worth a few plays.
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Geoff Conn
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Successors (third edition) as mentioned. Sword of Rome or The Napoleonic Wars are perhaps both best with 4 players but can do 5.

The upcoming Pericles: The Peloponnesian Wars is specifically 4 player.
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Kelly Krieble
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War of the Roses, if you like Euro-ish games
 
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Matt Gustafson
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Founding Fathers by Rick Heli
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Fred Schachter
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Greetings,

I'll second the motion regarding THE NAPOLEONIC WARS.

You might also wish to look into its 4 player designed "cousins" WELLINGTON and KUTUZOV. KUTUZOV, in particular, has game mechanisms to reflect troop Attrition and Morale.

Furthermore, although not yet available, is the currently GMT P-500 listed THE SEVEN YEARS WAR: FREDERICK'S GAMBLE, another 4 player designed game (which can also be played with 2 or 3).
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Roger Hobden
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Andean Abyss is designed for 4 people.
 
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Warren Bruhn
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Stefano, the ONLY wargame that I know of that has a strong military system (morale, leadership, supply) and also a strong diplomatic system is Empires in Arms (1983). Although it is long out of print, there are plenty of used copies for sale. It's a very long game that takes several (or many) sessions to play. And it's best with 7 players rather than 4. However, it's the richest diplomatic experience that you can get in a real wargame. It's worth the time and effort if you have the right kind of players. (With the wrong kind of players it's terrible.) If you and your friends are new to wargames then this is a somewhat difficult game. It has several unclear rules or situations not covered by rules that make it difficult even for veteran wargamers.



Here I Stand is good for a one day game, but the diplomatic and military systems are both light. A game for 6 players, but can be played with less.

Sword of Rome is also a fun one day game, but again the diplomatic and military systems are both light. A game that is best for 4 players, but can be played by 3 or 5. I recommend this game for you.

Perhaps the game with potential for some really good diplomacy, but with a very poor military system is Pax Britannica (1985). It's also long out of print, but copies can be found. The military aspects of this game are so unsatisfying that it's not really fun to go to war. But the diplomatic aspects can be great fun. It can take about 10 hours to play. Good with 4, 5, or 6 players.

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marc lecours
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Comments on games mentioned above:

Empires in Arms is a monster game. It really needs 7 players to be at its best (but 5 or 6 is OK). It is deep experience but takes a long long time to complete a game. But it is memorable. I can still remember all the details of my last game (over 20 years ago).

The coin series is a great series. The rules are not that hard BUT are hard to learn by heart. We are currently playing Falling Sky: The Gallic Revolt Against Caesar about the conquest of Gaul by Caesar. There is constant negotiating to maintain the balance of power. That seems to be the key to the 4 player games, there is a balance of power to maintain.

Here I Stand is a game with a lot of historical flavor. It plays best at 6. You can play it also at 3 players but a lot of the diplomacy will be lost. I would not play it at 4 or 5.

Virgin Queen is the sister game to Here I Stand. It is also a 6 player game but it plays very well as a 4 player game. I like it as much as Here I Stand. There are a lot of subsystems (children to marry off, exploration, piracy, arts and science) but each subsystem is independent so it is not so hard to learn.

Sword of Rome is a game I really like but the other players in my gaming group don't like it much. Again it is a balance of power game. You can't leave any other player get even a small advantage. The battles can shift the balance of power quickly which is my friends don't like it too much.

A game you might consider is Twilight Imperium (Third Edition). It is a science fiction game that has tons of stuff happening including diplomacy. We often play it at 4.





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Sean McCormick
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Friedrich
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Ste M
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Thanks to everyone.
I have games for the next 2years. Haha
I have just ordered a distant plain of the coin series.
For empire in arms I saw there is empire in harms that reimplement empire in arms. Which are the difference?

I'm looking in friedrich and in virgin queen too
Between here I stand and virgin queen? Which is better?
Thanks a lot
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Andy Daglish
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rubberchicken wrote:
Empires in Arms is a monster game.
So you have to ask yourself "do I know any monster gamers?"

Quote:
The coin series is a great series.
I get the impression A Distant Plain is the honest one. The others had to threatened with a red-hot poker before they would come up with four sides, with at least one vaguely covert. Insurgent is one thing, but continuous bloody mayhem in the noonday sun is a war.

whatever goes on in the sub-basement?


Quote:
Here I Stand is a game with a lot of historical flavor. It plays best at 6. You can play it also at 3 players but a lot of the diplomacy will be lost. I would not play it at 4 or 5.
The unholy alliance between the Pope and His Most Catholic Majesty was as indivisible as their omnipotent boss. So three may be better. Four works as France & Turkey are outsiders with no natural allies.

Quote:
Virgin Queen is the sister game to Here I Stand.
and owes its existence to it.

Quote:
Sword of Rome is a game I really like but the other players in my gaming group don't like it much.
The problem is excessive combat casualties, which can eliminate a player.

Quote:
A game you might consider is Twilight Imperium (Third Edition). It is a science fiction game that has tons of stuff happening including diplomacy. We often play it at 4.
The paramount design in this respect is Battlestar Galactica, which needs five or six players too devious to be trustworthy.
 
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Ste M
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aforandy wrote:
rubberchicken wrote:
Empires in Arms is a monster game.
So you have to ask yourself "do I know any monster gamers?"

Quote:
The coin series is a great series.
I get the impression A Distant Plain is the honest one. The others had to threatened with a red-hot poker before they would come up with four sides, with at least one vaguely covert. Insurgent is one thing, but continuous bloody mayhem in the noonday sun is a war.



Could you rephrase both sentence? I am not native so I can't grasp what r u saying.
Thanks.
In the end like I stated I bought adp and I'm on the fence for virgin queen.
 
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Brett McLay
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Off-the-beaten-path recommendations:
Liberté ... Here's an older one by Martin Wallace, best with 4. Diplomacy is not emphasized but the mechanics & history are solid. Otherwise, I'll mention an historical KickStarter that has 4-player cooperative aspects built in: Days of Ire: Budapest 1956. 'Not sure if it aligns with COIN designs, so give it a separate look. It may tweak your desire for diplomacy but nevertheless might scratch your itch.

_
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simon thornton
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I second The Napoleonic Wars (Second Edition) or Sword of Rome. I would have recommended Falling Sky: The Gallic Revolt Against Caesar for a first time COIN er but really they are all good so just choose the one which theme your most interested in.
 
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Jaro Andruszkiewicz
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Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage and Germania Magna: Border in Flames are both worth considering.
 
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Robert Stuart
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How fixated are you on the diplomacy side of it? An excellent game for four players is Britannia. It's war and struggle all the way, hence does not include a 'peace' phase before or between conflict -- but diplomacy does play a part in that the weaker players will want to make temporary alliances in order to counter the strength of the front-runner.

The game covers about 1000 years of history from the Roman invasion through the Norman invasion. One of the fascinating features of the game is that there are far more than four historical groups in the game. Each of the four players takes one historical group at a time, and when that group's time has come to disappear from history another group appears which is assigned to that player (i.e., when the Romans leave Britain the 'Romano-Celts, led by King Arthur, appear, and the 'Roman' player then plays the Romano-Celts). And similarly for the other three players; they have pre-assigned groups which appear in Britain in succession.

One nice thing about Britannia is that it can be played in a single long afternoon by four experienced players.

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Kevin Walsh
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el comandante wrote:

Isn't Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage strictly a 2-player game?
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