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Scythe» Forums » Rules

Subject: Seating order rss

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Aris Ktistakis
Greece
KOROPI, ATHENS
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Rules state that players are given faction mats and player boards at random, and the player with the lowest number gets to go first and then game proceeds clockwise.
Also there is Jamey's note which says that player boards with high numbers are a little bit boosted in tracks to balance the possibility of not getting equal turns as with the 1st player.....
And now my question:
Since those are handed randomly, what happens if next to 1st player on his left, a player board with number 5 was dealt...That player will play second with a board as if he was the 5th in turn....I'm confused...Probably I'm missing something...Anyone can help?

I was trying to find a similar question in the forums but with 965 different posts, I got lost there too!
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Michael Murphy
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You're right this is a little bit of a balancing issue, that some on the forum have proposed different house rules to fix.

Seating order is recommended that players sit nearest their starting location based on faction.

This is not official but I often house rule, pass out the player boards to get start player with the lowest number, or randomy select someone as start player. Then depending on player count give them a player board.
5 players: board 1
4 players: board 1 or 2 (random)
3 players: board 1,2, or 3 (random)
2 players: board 1,2,3, or 4 (random)

Then going in turn order distribute player boards of increasing value.

This does remove some variable setup (the player boards are always next to each other) but it makes different starting bonus feel fair. Increasing by 1 coin or popularity compared to the player earlier than you in turn order.
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Josh
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The boards are meant to be dealt out randomly, without regard to turn order, but it's been mentioned in these threads that some groups are randomly dealing out the first board, and then assigning the others in numerical order.
 
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Aris Ktistakis
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Yeah , this seems more rational....you deal all of them and then rearrange them starting from the left of the starting player..

Thank you guys!
 
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Chris Laudermilk
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This question has been posed in several threads. After 19 sessions at all player counts, I have yet to detect any influence by end-game from the player/action mats not being in numerical order. IMHO it just isn't that much of a difference.
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Matthew Peckham
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Alternatively, just give out the mats randomly, then play your turns in numerical order as opposed to simply clockwise.

Might take a few turns to get the turn order down naturally, but it adds extra replayability to the game as different factions will take their turns after each other, not just blue > red > yellow > black > white. Could be interesting!
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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athibor wrote:

I was trying to find a similar question in the forums but with 965 different posts, I got lost there too!


I find the easiest way to search for game related stuff in the forums is to use google. I punched "scythe player order" into google and found these on the first page of results.

Player Mat order
Clarification after first play - Starting Player Compensation
Turn Order

IMO the starting mats are not particularly relevant, we have not found the distribution of player mats described in the rules to have any bearing on the outcome of the game. My advice is to not overthink it and just distribute them as the rules describe.
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Chris Laudermilk
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reverendunclebastard wrote:


I find the easiest way to search for game related stuff in the forums is to use google.

Yep, that works well. A nice refinement that many might not know about is adding the "site:boardgamegeek.com" filter to the end. Then Google only looks for results on this site.
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Paul Ferguson
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According to the 700+ play tests, it doesn't matter. Given the choice, I would take the number 5 board every game, that's 4 free actions you start with over action board 1.
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Jonathan Kinney
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What about a draft? First player gets to choose their faction, then second player chooses one of remaining etc. Then the 5th player chooses which player board they want then the 4th player all the way up to the 1st player.

Just a thought
 
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Gustav W
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Personally I think Faction Mat/Player Mat combo can be more important than the extra resources. At the same time every action is rather valuable (20-25 actions in a game and the last few actions giving most points makes early position very valuable).

So with experienced players I suggest you randomize the Faction Mat/Player Mat combinations (as normal), then auction them out bidding VPs.
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Kara S
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Webbe wrote:
Personally I think Faction Mat/Player Mat combo can be more important than the extra resources. At the same time every action is rather valuable (20-25 actions in a game and the last few actions giving most points makes early position very valuable).


In all my plays we haven't noticed the turn order being an issue, either, and I agree that the Faction Mat/Player Mat combo is far more important and can make a game easier/harder depending on that combo.

Quote:
So with experienced players I suggest you randomize the Faction Mat/Player Mat combinations (as normal), then auction them out bidding VPs.


This is an interesting idea. I think my particular gaming group prefers the challenge of what is given to them and making it work, though the auction idea could help with players who tend to get a bit grumpy when their random setup is less than optimal. shake

If anything, the only (minor) issue we've had is with players randomly receiving the exact same board combos back-to-back and then those players simply fine-tuning their game to slaughter everyone on the repeat plays. For them, we withhold the offending faction/player mat and have them draw random, then add back in the removed mats and deal the rest out.
 
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Its about every 5 th post
 
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James
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I do not personally feel there is a marked imbalance in the scenario where an early player gets a higher number board, but just as another option if players really want to they can keep the turn order sequential but also maintain the variable nature of the boards as much as possible is this.

Random Faction and Player boards for each player then instead of sitting in front of their faction home base and playing clockwise from the lowest player board, have them sit in clockwise order from lowest to highest player board.

This means they might have to reach across the board to move their pieces because of where they ended up, but it does allow for the most variable match of boards.

This also means that certain nuanced things will be slightly different like the factions no longer play in clockwise order to each other on the board or the Enlist bonus triggering off your physical neighbor and not your faction homebase neighbor. Whether or not such things have any impact on how the game plays out is anyone's guess.

I think one of the things people might be missing is that the the higher number boards have different top and bottom ability pairings that might not be as ideal as the lower number boards.
 
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mfl134
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I suggest just embracing any possible imbalanced. I'm not really bothered by the imbalance.

I'm bothered that the lowest player board is noted to be first specifically to deal with an imbalance, which would obviously carry over to other boards relative positions.

so without the clarification in the rules, I wouldn't really be bothered much at all.

Different combinations of factions and board will be balanced different. Just embrace it and play the game.

I have been on the reverse side of similar arguments before (specifically when discussing the game Grand Cru). Just accept it as a challenge and go forward. If you are playing for money or playing in some form of tournament, it might be worth considering possible imbalances.

Specifically, in a game like Scythe, play the game differently to address any possible imbalance. (For example, if the person going 2nd in a 5 player game gets the 5 board, be more of a pain in the ass to the person during the game than other players.)
 
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