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Ticket to Ride: Rails & Sails» Forums » Rules

Subject: Tour tickets and harbours rss

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Suzan
Netherlands
Enschede
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Do the middle cities in a route tour ticket count for harbours? So if I have a ticket that has Honolulu as the second city, does it count for a harbour in Honolulu?
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Eric Amick
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Re: Route tickets and harbours
Suzan wrote:
Do the middle cities in a route ticket count for harbours? So if I have a ticket that has Honolulu as the second city, does it count for a harbour in Honolulu?


They're called tour tickets, not route tickets. All you need is a route built into a city to build a harbor. You don't need any ticket that refers to the city to do so.
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Suzan
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ericamick2 wrote:
Suzan wrote:
Do the middle cities in a route ticket count for harbours? So if I have a ticket that has Honolulu as the second city, does it count for a harbour in Honolulu?


They're called tour tickets, not route tickets. All you need is a route built into a city to build a harbor. You don't need any ticket that refers to the city to do so.


Edited the first post: route --> tour.

But that is not what I was trying to ask.
I have a harbour in Honolulu, I have a tour ticket (completed) with Honolulu as city number 2. Do I score points for that harbour?
 
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Eric Amick
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Suzan wrote:
ericamick2 wrote:
Suzan wrote:
Do the middle cities in a route ticket count for harbours? So if I have a ticket that has Honolulu as the second city, does it count for a harbour in Honolulu?


They're called tour tickets, not route tickets. All you need is a route built into a city to build a harbor. You don't need any ticket that refers to the city to do so.


Edited the first post: route --> tour.

But that is not what I was trying to ask.
I have a harbour in Honolulu, I have a tour ticket (completed) with Honolulu as city number 2. Do I score points for that harbour?


Quoting from the rules:

At the end of the game, a player gains points for each of his harbors as
follows:
✦ 20 points if he has one completed ticket into it;
✦ 30 points if he has two completed tickets into it;
✦ 40 points if he has three or more completed tickets into it.
(including Tour tickets)

Unless you intend to argue the parenthesized part applies only to the 40-point bonus, I think this answers your question.
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Alan R. Moon
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New York
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The answer to the original question is yes.

Alan
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Andrew J
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Hello, Just to change the original question slightly, as we're playing and not sure, if I have a completed ticket that goes through one of my harbours (Not a tour ticket) for example I have ticket Marseille to Los Angeles, and I place a harbour in New York and go via New York, do I score points because the ticket route goes into the harbour? Or does the Harbour have to be named as a source/destination on the ticket or a stop on the tour ticket? Thank you
 
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Gillum the Stoor
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The harbor city must be named on the completed ticket.

The rules say that the ticket must be into (not through) the harbor city.

Moreover, the example in the rules illustrate only tickets that name the harbor city.

With regard to the original question, that example also shows a player getting 30 points for having two tickets into a city, and one of the tickets is a tour ticket that names the city as the middle of three destinations.

If tour tickets counted only when there are three tickets, the example would have scored only 20 points for that harbor.
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Andrew J
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Hello,

Yes, we followed that logic too, however, out of 4 of us 2 read it one way and 2 read it another. (It was our first play through). Our question was about 2 city tickets, not tours. The ambiguity for us (and I'm not arguing, only explaining the confusion we faced) was that the word "into" can also be read as meaning the route going through it (I.e. Into and out of). The route goes into the harbour city whether it goes through, starts at, finishes at or (on a tour ticket) has a stop named at the harbour city.

The rules for TTR games usually come across as very explicit with little room for interpretation, so if the harbour has to be named on the ticket to score, then 2 of us interpreted that the rules would usually state exactly that; i.e "to score x points, the harbour city is named on the ticket" We really enjoyed the game but that element of ambiguity for us just held enough confusion to mean it was difficult to accurately declare the winner (it ended very close and it was 1am at the end hence tired minds).

Totally agree the examples show all tickets with named harbour cities. However, the tour ticket example (rightly or wrongly) just added enough doubt to leave us unsure.

Thanks for the clarity

The original question in this thread has the word "route" crossed out and was edited to say "tour", and Alan's reply said the original question was correct. Hence it could be read both ways also, and why I asked the question as detailed as I could to try to remove any ambiguity. As mentioned, the focus of our question was specifically about tickets with 2 named cities rather than tours. Thanks for the help though.
 
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I Taylor
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Still a bit confused after reading the above.

So: I have an ordinary, two-end destination ticket, say Los Angeles to Marseille (not sure if such a ticket actually exists, don't have the cards in front of me, but you get the idea). To complete this ticket, I build routes through New York. If I then build a harbour in New York, do my routes into and out of New York count for the purposes of scoring that harbour at the end of the game, or is it a case of I do not have a destination ticket specifically listing New York so no it does not count?

To me, it's not quite clear which question Alan Moon's answer of 'yes' refers to.
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Gillum the Stoor
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The original question was only about tour tickets, and it asked whether the count of completed tickets "into" a harbour city included tour tickets that named the city as the middle city.

If harbour points could be gained by building through the harbour city as part of completing an ordinary ticket that does not name the city, the original question would not need to be asked.

I believe that the rules are quite clear that the harbour city must be named on the ticket. It refers to tickets [b]into[/]b (not through) the harbour city. In discussing tickets with multiple harbours, it uses the term "named on the ticket."

All the examples of tickets giving points to harbours identify only tickets that name the harbour city (including one in which the harbour city was a middle city).

Completion of a ticket from Los Angeles to Marseilles through New York does not contribute to the scoring of any harbour in New York.
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David Martin
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My interpretation was that any completed ticket on which your harbor city is named counts toward the bonus. So if you built a harbor in Luanda and you had the Lagos-Luanda-Dar es Salaam-Djibouti tour ticket, as well as some other standard ticket on which one end was Luanda, you'd score 30 for that harbor. In my very first game, I did exactly that, and also built another harbor in Dar es Salaam, where I had a few other tickets as well.

I figure the entire reason why the tour tickets are valued so low, and the points you lose for not completing them outnumber the points you gain for completing them, is because they open up more options for you to build harbors.
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Franck@DoW
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Ian taylor wrote:
Still a bit confused after reading the above.

So: I have an ordinary, two-end destination ticket, say Los Angeles to Marseille (not sure if such a ticket actually exists, don't have the cards in front of me, but you get the idea). To complete this ticket, I build routes through New York. If I then build a harbour in New York, do my routes into and out of New York count for the purposes of scoring that harbour at the end of the game, or is it a case of I do not have a destination ticket specifically listing New York so no it does not count?

To me, it's not quite clear which question Alan Moon's answer of 'yes' refers to.


Alan Moon's answer referred to the very first post of this thread.

To keep it simple, when you score harbors, you check all completed tickets and count tickets where the city is named.

Hope this helps...
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Nathan Sokalski
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Pennsylvania
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I have the same question posted at:

https://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?goto=348899#msg_348899

I don't know if my wording of the question is easier to understand, but I am still not 100% sure when or if to use the middle cities when calculating the harbor points.
 
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Franck@DoW
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As long as the city where you built your harbor is named on a Destination Ticket you completed, you count that Destination Ticket (no matter where the city is in the case on the Tour Ticket).

A Tour Ticket is completed as long as you score positive points with it (either the big score or the low one).

I answered on the other post as well...
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David Martin
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I feel like, to some degree at least, you gain an even bigger advantage than normal by memorizing which cities are named on 3 or more tickets in the deck. If you're debating which city to build a harbor on because you only have 1 ow 2 tickets into several different cities, gambling on one that you know has a few more tickets left in the deck is pretty much always the better bet. This means over time, players will gravitate toward a set of "big cities" when building their harbors, which could get interesting with a larger number of players on the board, I guess.
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Nathan Sokalski
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Let me also try using the example in the instructions to ask my question. Here are the exact words from the instructions:

She completed the following tickets:
Buenos Aires–Manila, Buenos Aires-Sydney, Hamburg–Dar Es Salaam, and the Tour Ticket Lagos–Luanda–Dar Es Salaam–Djibouti.


Question: For the Tour Ticket, does "completed" mean high-point (9 points) or low-point (6 points)?
Response:
If "completed" means high-point, is high-point required to get points from the Tour Ticket for Dar Es Salaam (a middle city)?
If "completed" means high-point OR low-point, is Dar Es Salaam required to be connected to Lagos or Djibouti (directly or indirectly through one or more routes) to get points from the Tour Ticket for Dar Es Salaam (a middle city)?

Hopefully these specific questions can help make it easier to answer and remove the ambiguity of the rules so I can figure out the scoring.
 
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Gillum the Stoor
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If you score positive points for a ticket (high or low, when it is a tour ticket), that ticket counts as a completed ticket for any city named on the ticket at which you have a harbor.
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Nathan Sokalski
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Pennsylvania
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Here are some specific scenarios (using the same Tour Ticket mentioned above and in the instructions) that knowing the correct answer for may help clear up the ambiguity:

Scenario #1:
The following routes are claimed:
Lagos to Casablanca
Casablanca to Al-Lahira
Al-Lahira to Djibouti
Djibouti to Dar Es Salaam
With a harbor in Dar Es Salaam
This completes the Tour Ticket, but only for the lower (6 points), and also connects to Dar Es Salaam (the city with the harbor). Would the ticket count when calculating harbor points?

Scenario #2:
The following routes are claimed:
Lagos to Casablanca
Casablanca to Al-Lahira
Al-Lahira to Djibouti
Luanda to Dar Es Salaam
With a harbor in Dar Es Salaam
This completes the Tour Ticket, but only for the lower (6 points). Note that Dar Es Salaam is NOT (directly or indirectly) connected to the other cities & routes (the ones that do the "completing" of the ticket). Would the ticket count when calculating harbor points?

Thank you!
 
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Gillum the Stoor
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In neither of these examples is the Tour Ticket completed.

In the first, there is no path to Luanda.

In the second, Lagos and Djibouti are not connected with Luanda and Dar Es Salaam.

In both cases, the player would lose 15 points and would not get harbor points for that ticket.

If you look at this post, you will see some from the publisher confirming that, to complete a ticket, "all the cities on the ticket are linked."
 
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