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Subject: Finally, a cop involved in a shooting is swiftly terminated. rss

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Damian
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For not being the one to shoot the guy.

Luckily two other cops showed up and took him out. Impressively they managed to shoot him in the back of the head as he approached them.
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jeremy cobert
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He endangered his fellow officers and the public as well as disobeyed protocol. He should be fired.

Quote:
I saw then he had a gun, but it was not pointed at me"

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Pontifex Maximus
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jeremycobert wrote:
He endangered his fellow officers and the public as well as disobeyed protocol. He should be fired.

Quote:
I saw then he had a gun, but it was not pointed at me"




Yeah, who know how much mayhem and death he could have caused with an UNLOADED FUCKING GUN.

Do you even believe the crap you saw anymore, or just are doing this for effect
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Boaty McBoatface
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damiangerous wrote:
For not being the one to shoot the guy.

Luckily two other cops showed up and took him out. Impressively they managed to shoot him in the back of the head as he approached them.
What the hell,I would have thought this was just the kind of cop you wanted.

And it is odd they shot a man ion the back of the head who was looking at them, that is some real fine Riviera Kid style shooting there.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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Kumitedad wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
He endangered his fellow officers and the public as well as disobeyed protocol. He should be fired.

Quote:
I saw then he had a gun, but it was not pointed at me"




Yeah, who know how much mayhem and death he could have caused with an UNLOADED FUCKING GUN.

Do you even believe the crap you saw anymore, or just are doing this for effect
To be fair there was no one the office could have known that. But the "assailant" was not acting threatening, and should have been talked to.

 
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Wendell
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Damned if he didn't get fired for being too well trained, too experienced, and for actually using his judgment. I hope that Mader finds another job with another PD, because he sounds like the kind of guy I want as a cop.

Look, I don't want cops hurt; having a close friend AND a sister-in-law AND a step-brother who are cops reinforces that. But there is a certain level of risk associated with the job, and a certain amount of judgment and calculation (of the sort Mader showed) SHOULD be expected before killing somebody legally.

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette wrote:
Immediately, the training he had undergone as a Marine to look at “the whole person” in deciding if someone was a terrorist, as well as his situational police academy training, kicked in and he did not shoot.

...

As for why he was fired, Mr. Mader said it seems obvious to him why that was done.

“Firing me for it, it’s less of an eyebrow-raiser then to say the other officers are justified in what they did — which I think they were.”


And the Blue Wall of Silence descends again.

(edits: reformatted because BGG's quoting stuff function sucks)
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jeremy cobert
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slatersteven wrote:
But the "assailant" was not acting threatening, and should have been talked to.


So we are now cool with people walking around with a open firearm ? noted.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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jeremycobert wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
But the "assailant" was not acting threatening, and should have been talked to.


So we are now cool with people walking around with a open firearm ? noted.
No, I think it is stupid (as this episode demonstrates, the bloke still got shot) to walk around with gun when there are other people with guns about who are not sure what you intend to do.

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Marcel
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jeremycobert wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
But the "assailant" was not acting threatening, and should have been talked to.


So we are now cool with people walking around with a open firearm ? noted.
No. People are saying and have been sayoing for years in threads involvong police shootings, that police should not gun down everybody who is walking around with a firearm.
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Jonny Lawless
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Now I'm starting to worry about my job. I haven't shot anyone in weeks.
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So, every time there is a police shooting, we hear that it's just a few bad apples and that there is no systemic problem with training. That there isn't a problem with circling the wagons and stonewalling by those in charge. Well, exhibit A of why we can't just solve this by weeding out a few bad apples. Police officer who confronts a man with a gun pointed down, who asks him to shoot him. Tries to talk him down. Two other officers show up and shoot him. The gun turns out to be unloaded. The first cop is fired for endangering officers by not just immediately shooting the guy. Isn't this what we've been asking for? Cops that use some judgment about a situation and try to deescalate it? Meanwhile, we have places like Chicago where a cop flat out murders a guy, and it takes two years to officially terminate him. It's not just a few bad apples. It's a pervasive attitude that needs to be changed.
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she2 wrote:
So, every time there is a police shooting, we hear that it's just a few bad apples and that there is no systemic problem with training. That there isn't a problem with circling the wagons and stonewalling by those in charge. Well, exhibit A of why we can't just solve this by weeding out a few bad apples. Police officer who confronts a man with a gun pointed down, who asks him to shoot him. Tries to talk him down. Two other officers show up and shoot him. The gun turns out to be unloaded. The first cop is fired for endangering officers by not just immediately shooting the guy. Isn't this what we've been asking for? Cops that use some judgment about a situation and try to deescalate it? Meanwhile, we have places like Chicago where a cop flat out murders a guy, and it takes two years to officially terminate him. It's not just a few bad apples. It's a pervasive attitude that needs to be changed.


Two other officers show up, the man in question advances on the other two waving the gun around (at them?) and gets shot.* Even the officer who was trying to talk him down doesn't think the other two did anything wrong.

Of course this thing stinks for other reasons, and not the shooting in my opinion.

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COMPNOR wrote:
she2 wrote:
So, every time there is a police shooting, we hear that it's just a few bad apples and that there is no systemic problem with training. That there isn't a problem with circling the wagons and stonewalling by those in charge. Well, exhibit A of why we can't just solve this by weeding out a few bad apples. Police officer who confronts a man with a gun pointed down, who asks him to shoot him. Tries to talk him down. Two other officers show up and shoot him. The gun turns out to be unloaded. The first cop is fired for endangering officers by not just immediately shooting the guy. Isn't this what we've been asking for? Cops that use some judgment about a situation and try to deescalate it? Meanwhile, we have places like Chicago where a cop flat out murders a guy, and it takes two years to officially terminate him. It's not just a few bad apples. It's a pervasive attitude that needs to be changed.


Two other officers show up, the man in question advances on the other two waving the gun around (at them?) and gets shot.* Even the officer who was trying to talk him down doesn't think the other two did anything wrong.

Of course this thing stinks for other reasons, and not the shooting in my opinion.



I don't disagree with you that this may have been a justified shooting (they had no way of knowing the gun was not loaded and were not privy to the first officer's conversation or observations of the dead guy; I think the first officer saw a guy trying to kill himself and was trying to talk him down before the keystone cops arrived). I'm questioning whether the cop that tried to talk the shooter down before the guy ended up deal due to the additional stress of the other two officers should have been terminated from his job. I don't think we are in major disagreement here. I don't think the police officer did anything to endanger anyone, and that his firing just shows that departments adhere to a shoot first, ask questions later mode of operation. It's fucked up. Also, you'd have to be fairly deluded not to think that the shooting cops didn't have something to do with the first officer being fired. Yeah, not at all vindicative.

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andrew
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So the young bloke is cool as ice and brave as a lion..

Not police material..

But two scaredy cats who shoot first and ask questions later are ok?

Reading the article makes me think the other cops escalated a situation so they could get a kick out of killing.. How long before the people of the USA revolt against their protectors turned oppressors do you think?

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Mac Mcleod
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jeremycobert wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
But the "assailant" was not acting threatening, and should have been talked to.


So we are now cool with people walking around with a open firearm ? noted.


Isn't open carry the law and a goal of gun advocates in many states?

As a 2nd amendment proponent, shouldn't you be concerned as well?
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Wendell
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maxo-texas wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
But the "assailant" was not acting threatening, and should have been talked to.


So we are now cool with people walking around with a open firearm ? noted.


Isn't open carry the law and a goal of gun advocates in many states?

As a 2nd amendment proponent, shouldn't you be concerned as well?


There's an important unstated clause for the advocates of open carry: open carry for whites only.
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jeremy cobert
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wifwendell wrote:
There's an important unstated clause for the advocates of open carry: open carry for whites only.


Correct ! the Democrat allies in the KKK were tired of these uppity blacks who could shoot back. The history of gun control in the USA is rooted in racism and continues to this day.

Stay classy my gun grabbing/hood wearing friends , stay classy !
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Wendell
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jeremycobert wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
There's an important unstated clause for the advocates of open carry: open carry for whites only.


Correct ! the Democrat allies in the KKK were tired of these uppity blacks who could shoot back. The history of gun control in the USA is rooted in racism and continues to this day.

Stay classy my gun grabbing/hood wearing friends , stay classy !


Have you checked a calendar? It's 2016, not 1936. The dudes wearing white robes vote Republican nowadays.
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jeremy cobert
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wifwendell wrote:
Have you checked a calendar? It's 2016, not 1936. The dudes wearing white robes vote Republican nowadays.


Oh this is the part where

I say: proof ?

you say: yeah but David Duke

And I say: What about Will Quigg

then you say:yeah but southern strategy 1

And I say: the highest ranking Democrat just 6 years ago was a grand Kleagle in the KKK well into his 30's.

And then you walk away and say: yeah but still.
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Mac Mcleod
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jeremycobert wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
Have you checked a calendar? It's 2016, not 1936. The dudes wearing white robes vote Republican nowadays.


Oh this is the part where

I say: proof ?

you say: yeah but David Duke

And I say: What about Will Quigg

then you say:yeah but southern strategy 1

And I say: the highest ranking Democrat just 6 years ago was a grand Kleagle in the KKK well into his 30's.

And then you walk away and say: yeah but still.




While white democrats still have work to do, white republicans are far behind. Much higher percentages of white republicans believe blacks as a group are lazier and less intelligent than non-blacks.







http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/16/donald-trum...
Quote:
Trumps Racism Repels Black Republicans


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ronald-reagans-son-trump...
Quote:

Ronald Reagan’s Son: I’m Not Voting For Trump And Neither Would My Dad
Michael Reagan said Trump is the first GOP presidential candidate his father wouldn’t support.

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Boaty McBoatface
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Clinton spokesman Josh Schwerin said at the time that the campaign had never received the contributions and that “We want no part of them or their money and vehemently reject their hateful agenda.”


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/30/is-this-hil...

Trump gets endorsement form KKK and claims he never heard of them, Clinton gets support from KKK and her campaign says they do not want it.
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Mac Mcleod
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slatersteven wrote:
Quote:
Clinton spokesman Josh Schwerin said at the time that the campaign had never received the contributions and that “We want no part of them or their money and vehemently reject their hateful agenda.”


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/30/is-this-hil...

Trump gets endorsement form KKK and claims he never heard of them, Clinton gets support from KKK and her campaign says they do not want it.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/...
Quote:

Unlike most other top Republican officials, Trump generally does not couple his statements about Duke with a firm condemnation of Duke’s views. Instead, his answers are often reactive, such as “I would do that [repudiate Duke], if it made you feel better.”
(note, he doesn't actually repudiate Duke)

1991 Trump knows who duke is.
2000 Trump knows who duke is.
2015 After Duke endorsed him, Trump suddenly has no clue who duke is.
Quote:
Trump: “Sure, I would do that, if it made you feel better. I don’t know anything about him. Somebody told me yesterday, whoever he is, he did endorse me. Actually I don’t think it was an endorsement. He said I was absolutely the best of all of the candidates.”
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flamespeak wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
He endangered his fellow officers and the public as well as disobeyed protocol. He should be fired.

Quote:
I saw then he had a gun, but it was not pointed at me"




Yeah, who know how much mayhem and death he could have caused with an UNLOADED FUCKING GUN.

Do you even believe the crap you saw anymore, or just are doing this for effect


Are you operating on the logic that a gun should be considered unloaded as a default?

I mean, if so, phew boy. Everyone on both sides of the aisle on the gun control debate would consider such a stance to be, let's just say, 'unique'.


Actually the officer was acting under his training and observation that the man was not a threat, which it turned out he was correct. Turns out that if he was listened to that man would still be alive. Or are the fact not really that important to you?
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Mac Mcleod
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jeremycobert wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
Have you checked a calendar? It's 2016, not 1936. The dudes wearing white robes vote Republican nowadays.


Oh this is the part where

I say: proof ?

you say: yeah but David Duke

And I say: What about Will Quigg

then you say:yeah but southern strategy 1

And I say: the highest ranking Democrat just 6 years ago was a grand Kleagle in the KKK well into his 30's.

And then you walk away and say: yeah but still.


As you are an individual.. what are your opinions?

Slavery had little effect on blacks today?
True? False? Extended opinion?
(me: TRUE, it crippled them even without 100 more years of intense racism and discrimination including lynchings).

Blacks should work their way up without favors?
True? False? Extended opinion.
(me: Not true or false- it's complicated. Some blacks have succeeded and no longer need assistance. Some blacks are still in crippling poverty with terrible school systems. They need better schools. Some businesses still have racist hiring practices. Affirmative action should be enforced on businesses who are grossly out of balance with the rest of society)

Blacks have not gotten less than they deserve?
(i.e. Blacks have gotten more than they deserve)
(me: False. Blacks have been excluded in housing, military service, education, hiring, loans, suffered unequal law enforcement, and harsher judicial sentences. They have gotten less than they deserve.)

Blacks would succeed if they only tried harder?
(me: Complicated. Some blacks in some areas couldn't succeed regardless of how hard they tried. Only by leaving those areas could they succeed. Blacks suffer systemic racism so they have to try harder than equally citizens of other races with the same economic standing. So yes, by giving 125% they could succeed as well as other races.. most of the time (but not all of the time).

There is little or no discrimination against blacks?
(me: False. there is rampant widespread discrimination against blacks).



So come on jeremy.. what's your honest opinion on these questions?

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jeremycobert wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
Have you checked a calendar? It's 2016, not 1936. The dudes wearing white robes vote Republican nowadays.


Oh this is the part where

I say: proof ?

you say: yeah but David Duke

And I say: What about Will Quigg

then you say:yeah but southern strategy 1

And I say: the highest ranking Democrat just 6 years ago was a grand Kleagle in the KKK well into his 30's.

And then you walk away and say: yeah but still.


Leaving out the part where said high ranking democrat had not only forsworn his racist path, but was such a supporter of civil rights the NAACP had this to say on his passing

"Senator Byrd reflects the transformative power of this nation," stated NAACP President and CEO Benjamin Todd Jealous. "Senator Byrd went from being an active member of the KKK to a being a stalwart supporter of the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act and many other pieces of seminal legislation that advanced the civil rights and liberties of our country.

"Senator Byrd came to consistently support the NAACP civil rights agenda, doing well on the NAACP Annual Civil Rights Report Card. He stood with us on many issues of crucial importance to our members from the reauthorization of the Voting Rights Act, the historic health care legislation of 2010 and his support for the Hate Crimes Prevention legislation," stated Hilary O. Shelton, Director of the NAACP Washington Bureau and Senior Vice President for Advocacy and Policy. "Senator Byrd was a master of the Senate Rules, and helped strategize passage of legislation that helped millions of Americans. He will be sorely missed."

http://www.naacp.org/press/entry/naacp-mourns-the-passing-of...

So easy for the Right to make their case when they get to ignore inconvenient facts
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