Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
7 Posts

Hands in the Sea» Forums » Rules

Subject: Clarification needed for supply and Reinforce a Land Battle rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Chris Clarke
United States
Hoboken
New Jersey
flag msg tools
badge
Loving Hardcore History with Dan Carlin
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
5.2.2

IMPORTANT: Reinforcement of locations can only be performed if the location is in supply.


This note brings some ambiguity to the RAW. During an attack, the defender controls the location, and if it is in supply, he may reinforce (by sword, always, by ship if no enemy controlled sea adjacent). Right, got it. But conversely, the attacker doesn't control the location he is attacking and therefore cannot be in supply "simultaneously" with the defender. Thus, the attacker can never reinforce a location he is attacking. And that's not right.

Am I seeing this rules discrepancy correctly? If not, can someone point out in the RAW where this is explained the "right" way?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Berger
United States
Littleton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Read "in supply" as "can trace to a friendly supply point". I'll add that to the "Errata and Clarifications" post.

Note that this would not include the location itself under attack. Let's say that Carthage controls Thermae as well as the Sicily sea zone, and Rome controls Tyndaris but has not yet captured Syracuse. The Roman player could still attack and reinforce from Tyndaris to Thermae, since he can trace from Tyndaris to Messana, across the straights, and up to Rome.

If captured Thermae would be instantly out of supply for the Roman player since there's a 2-space restriction for tracing supply across straights, and Thermae is 3 spaces across. That is, until Rome either captured Syracuse or took control of the Sicily sea zone.

Also see the clarification at the end of 4.4 that says that a target location of an attack or settle action does not have to be in supply, though if acquired, its corresponding Location card would be useless until it becomes in supply.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Clarke
United States
Hoboken
New Jersey
flag msg tools
badge
Loving Hardcore History with Dan Carlin
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for the quick reply, Daniel.

What if, same situation described above, only Carthage Fleet is in Africa, let's say (Panormus and Thermae Carthage controlled, Tyndarus Rome controlled, Syracuse not taken). Rome attacks Panormus by sea from Tyndarus. Can Rome reinforce Panormus? Yes, because he can trace supply through Sicily Sea Zone back to Rome. And if the Carthage fleet is in a now enemy controlled Sicily Sea Zone, Rome could not attack Panormus by land or sea, correct?

I think another useful place for this clarification in the rules would be top of page 13...
"Restrictions on Attacking
A player may not initiate more than a single battle at a time, but may be involved in a simultaneous battle that the
opponent initiated. Also, a player may not attack (or reinforce) a location by sea if its Sea Zone is enemy-controlled;
however, a player could still attack it using a land connection [and then reinforce with swords as ipso facto, the adjacent land connection card played must be in supply].

Does that make sense? My wording is awful. I mean to connect the "Restrictions on attacking" section back to 5.2.2's IMPORTANT note that you are changing...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Berger
United States
Littleton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
aram12 wrote:
Thanks for the quick reply, Daniel.

What if, same situation described above, only Carthage Fleet is in Africa, let's say (Panormus and Thermae Carthage controlled, Tyndarus Rome controlled, Syracuse not taken). Rome attacks Panormus by sea from Tyndarus. Can Rome reinforce Panormus? Yes, because he can trace supply through Sicily Sea Zone back to Rome. And if the Carthage fleet is in a now enemy controlled Sicily Sea Zone, Rome could not attack Panormus by land or sea, correct?

Correct. If Rome started an attack on Panormus from Tyndaris using a sea connection, and then had its supply cut across the Sicily sea zone (and Carthage controlled Thermae), it would not be able to reinforce the battle.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simone Melchiori
Italy
Vigarano Pieve
FE
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Sorry for my bad english, but i'm not sure to understand...

There are 2 phrases ambiguous:

Clarification: "You can only reinforce locations that you can trace to a friendly supply point."

and phrase:
djberg96 wrote:
Read "Note that this would not include the location itself under attack.


My understanding is: the 'attacking location must trace to a friendly Supply Point' where attacking location is :

- for a land battle: the attacking location (On Daniel example: Tyndaris)
- for a sea battle: the sea (On Chris example: the Sicily Sea)

Correct?

Maybe the 'IMPORTANT' phrase should be: "In a land battle the 'attacking' location must be in supply (not the attacked location). In a sea battle you can reinforce by sea only if enemy do not control the sea. " . Correct?


EDIT: Maybe isn't 'attacking location' the correct words because which type of attack has been made attacking a location is not important on reinforcing action. Maybe The correct concept for reinforce a land battle is that a land battle can be reinforced in 2 ways:

- by land: you play a sword card and you must have a supplied location adjacent to battle location
- by sea: you play a sword (or a ship ) and the enemy doesn't control the sea of battle location





1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Berger
United States
Littleton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
EDIT: Maybe isn't 'attacking location' the correct words because which type of attack has been made attacking a location is not important on reinforcing action. Maybe The correct concept for reinforce a land battle is that a land battle can be reinforced in 2 ways:

- by land: you play a sword card and you must have a supplied location adjacent to battle location
- by sea: you play a sword (or a ship ) and the enemy doesn't control the sea of battle location


Simone, your edit is correct.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Clarke
United States
Hoboken
New Jersey
flag msg tools
badge
Loving Hardcore History with Dan Carlin
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thematic and mechanical follow up question.

1.

Sicily uncontrolled. Carthage controls Rhegium and Italy Sea Zone, so, in fact, all supply is cut off from Italy. A battle is already in progress in Messana.
Rome cannot reinforce this battle at all, correct?

If Carthage fleet in Sicily Sea Zone, same?

If Carthage fleet in Africa Sea Zone, Rome can reinforce with Swords and Ships?

If Carthage flee in Sicily Sea Zone and Rhegium controlled by Rome, Rome can reinforce only with swords?

2.

Sicily uncontrolled, Rome controls Italy, Messana, Tyndaris. Carthage controls Panormus. Sea zone uncontrolled.

Rome attacks Panormus with Tyndaris ship connection. Carthage moves fleet to Sicily sea zone. Rome can still reinforce with swords across uncontrolled Thermae? I would say no, because without Sicily, Roman supply cannot reach Thermae. If Sicily was controlled, supply CAN reach Thermae so even though Thermae is not Roman controlled, Rome can trace supply from Thermae and thus reinforce with swords? Is THAT correct?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.