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Legendary: Civil War» Forums » Rules

Subject: Question regarding Patriot rss

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Marc Drebing
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I'm sorry if this was discussed in another forum, but I could not find it elsewhere. On Patriot's common cards, "Intuitive" (cost 3), and "New Generation of Heroes" (cost 2), both say "You get +1 (attack or recruit) for each Hero Name among your non-[S.H.I.E.L.D.] Heroes.

I interpret this two different ways. First, it could mean literally each card with a Hero Name, or each different Hero Name on the different cards. I ask this because Patriot's rare card "Lead The Young Avengers" states, "if you revealed at least three DIFFERENT Hero Names this way..." However, his two common cards do not mention the word "DIFFERENT."

For example, let's say I play 2 Iron Man cards, 2 Lady Thor cards, and 1 Patriot "New Generation of Heroes" card; is Patriot's card, "New Generation of Heroes" worth 5 recruit (5 cards with a Hero name) or 3 recruit (5 cards with 3 different Hero names)?
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Mike Runnestrand
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The commons do not say "different" but I don't think they have to. He's not counting "cards with hero names", he's counting "hero names". "Different" is implied.

In your example, you even specify that you are talking about cards with hero names, not hero names. "2 Iron Man cards, 2 Lady Thor cards, and 1 Patriot "New Generation of Heroes" card"

Iron Man
Iron Man
Lady Thor
Lady Thor
Patriot

Is 3 hero names. Perhaps the card could have been more clear (welcome to Legendary!) but I think this is clearly the intent of the monkeys on typewriters, I mean, design team.
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Marc Drebing
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runnestrand wrote:
The commons do not say "different" but I don't think they have to. He's not counting "cards with hero names", he's counting "hero names". "Different" is implied.

In your example, you even specify that you are talking about cards with hero names, not hero names. "2 Iron Man cards, 2 Lady Thor cards, and 1 Patriot "New Generation of Heroes" card"

Iron Man
Iron Man
Lady Thor
Lady Thor
Patriot

Is 3 hero names. Perhaps the card could have been more clear (welcome to Legendary!) but I think this is clearly the intent of the monkeys on typewriters, I mean, design team.


I agree, otherwise his two common cards could be overpowered.
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David A
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That's a really good question! To start, for everyone's reference, from the Core Rules:



My take --> Because New Generation of Heroes doesn't include the word "different", I'd say it was worth 5 Recruit in the scenario you provided.

It turns out, only his rare (Lead the Young Avengers) specifies actually worrying about Different hero names.
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David A
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runnestrand wrote:
The commons do not say "different" but I don't think they have to. He's not counting "cards with hero names", he's counting "hero names". "Different" is implied.

In your example, you even specify that you are talking about cards with hero names, not hero names. "2 Iron Man cards, 2 Lady Thor cards, and 1 Patriot "New Generation of Heroes" card"

Iron Man
Iron Man
Lady Thor
Lady Thor
Patriot

Is 3 hero names. Perhaps the card could have been more clear (welcome to Legendary!) but I think this is clearly the intent of the monkeys on typewriters, I mean, design team.

Initially, I agreed with this, but then looking at all of his cards, only his Rare specifies different Hero Names.
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Mike Runnestrand
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They also don't say "cards with hero names". I think the implication is clear, if not the wording. He wants to lead a diverse team. The way you're interpreting it, a hand of 5 of Patriot's common attack card would give you 25 attack! And his rare would be significantly worse than his commons. The commons would reward you for recruiting ALL Patriot, but the rare wants you to have a varied hand of heroes? Seem like what they were going for? Probably not.

If you've read the same book 5 times, and I say "name each book you've read", you only name one book. You don't say "Lord of the Rings, Lord of the Rings, Lord of the Rings, Lord of the Rings, and Lord of the Rings."

This is another example of sloppy wording on UD's part, where everyone in the playtesting group knows how it's SUPPOSED to work, so they don't bother to spell it out because they didn't have an issue with it.
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Justin H

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Let's not over think this. You get +1 recruit for each Hero name. Iron Man, Patriot, and Lady Thor. That's 3 hero names, you get +3 recruit. Otherwise, would it not just state "You get +1 recruit for each non-shield hero you have."
 
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Justin H

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runnestrand wrote:
This is another example of sloppy wording on UD's part, where everyone in the playtesting group knows how it's SUPPOSED to work, so they don't bother to spell it out because they didn't have an issue with it.


I don't think this is case of bad play testing. It may be more of a case of people over analyzing the situation. Captain America's common cards say "...for each color of hero you have." It doesn't say "different" but I don't think a lot of people had questions about that. The wording on Patriot's card seems to be in line with what they have used in the past.
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Carl Petit
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I pretty sure the mechanics of these cards is intended to combo with the divided cards wich have most of the time two hero names on them while they are in your hand. So yes these cards can be quite strong.
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Dana Tillusz
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Doctor Nightmare wrote:
I pretty sure the mechanics of these cards is intended to combo with the divided cards wich have most of the time two hero names on them while they are in your hand. So yes these cards can be quite strong.


I'm new to Legendary (as of this month) and I'm trying to figure out a few things myself.

Does a player need to play the heroes from their hand to gain Patriot's effect (instead of revealing them from hand)? I'm playing that way. Which means he wouldn't get +2 when you play a divided card. As I understand it, playing a divided card you choose one hero, meaning you would get only +1.



 
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Mike Runnestrand
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HeavyD wrote:
Doctor Nightmare wrote:
I pretty sure the mechanics of these cards is intended to combo with the divided cards wich have most of the time two hero names on them while they are in your hand. So yes these cards can be quite strong.


I'm new to Legendary (as of this month) and I'm trying to figure out a few things myself.

Does a player need to play the heroes from their hand to gain Patriot's effect (instead of revealing them from hand)? I'm playing that way. Which means he wouldn't get +2 when you play a divided card. As I understand it, playing a divided card you chose one hero, meaning you would get only +1.





Whenever a card references "your heroes" or cards "you have" it means cards you have played this turn, as well as cards still in your hand. So a card like Patriot takes a snapshot when it is played, and counts everything in play and in your hand. The only thing it doesn't count is cards you may draw later in the turn, after you've played it.
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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But I think Dana's point is that while a Divided card is in your hand, it definitely counts as two different Hero Names, but once you play it, would Patriot still count it as two different Hero Names? Once you play a Divided card, you are supposed to choose which side of the card you are playing.

For example, if you have played a Storm/Black Panther Divided card as the Storm side, and then a Patriot cards asks you how many Hero Names you "have", would that Divided card still count as two Heroes or just one (Storm)?
 
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Dana Tillusz
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The snapshot of played cards and cards in your hand is very odd, but I'm okay with playing it that way.

As I understand it now: Divided cards in card count as two heroes; divided card payed would be one card, as Davy says, because you need to choose which hero you're playing.
 
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Jason Edwards
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So, is it generally agreed that the divided card would give you two names if still in your hand for use with Patriot? That is interesting.

Also, do Sidekicks count as a "hero name" or are they just sidekicks and so do not count?

Thanks in advance for your help.
 
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