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Terra Mystica» Forums » General

Subject: Shapeshifters rss

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Henrik Løv
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Hey, which version of shapeshifters on snellman is the official one?

The v5 with lowest score of all f
actions?
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Robert
Germany
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Henrikloev wrote:
Hey, which version of shapeshifters on snellman is the official one?

The v5 with lowest score of all factions?
Yes, "shapeshifters_v5" is the implementation of the revised rules as per this official rule change: OFFICIAL CHANGE OF RULES!

Renaming them into something like "shapeshifters_new" might clarify this a bit more, but then again it's not a serious problem, as players can only pick this Shapeshifter version anyway.

As you noticed, the statistics tell us that the revised Shapeshifters are over-nerfed and rarely attractive. However that's so much better than having the original Shapeshifters in the game, which proved to be OP in a game-breaking way (player on seat #1 picks Ss and has a 50% chance to win in a 4p game).

Btw. this largely also applies to "riverwalkers_v5". However here the nerf was better, making the Rw more of an average -yet special- faction (if the opponents know how to deal with them).
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Henrik Løv
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Why on earth not revise the rules again now that it is clear that they were nerfed too much..? Seems rediculous to me. I just bought the expansion and now i can enjoy either a shitty faction or an overpowered one. Like, why..?
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James Wolfpacker
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For real life games I suggest playing Shapeshifters version 4.

It's in the Changelog here.

The old versions have been scrubbed from the Stats and Faction Ratings (and probably all personal ratings too), but from memory it looked like version 4 was about right and V5 is definitely too much.

Riverwalkers V5 is about right, IMHO. They can still win high level 5p games as shown in the F&I Test League, but they are not OP.
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Simon Bérubé
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Lévis
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There seems to be a general agreement on this forum that shapeshifters v5 are now too weak.

Question: Why don't we (terra.snellman.net) go back to using v4 as the definitive version?
 
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Tungsten Sword
Spain
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I would love the change from Shapeshifters v5 to Shapeshifters v4 to be approved by the designers before playing a game with Shapeshifters v4 (yeah, I'm a filthy bureaucrat).
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Robert
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TheTungstenSword wrote:
I would love the change from Shapeshifters v5 to Shapeshifters v4 to be approved by the designers before playing a game with Shapeshifters v4 (yeah, I'm a filthy bureaucrat).
...which I doubt will ever happen. After all, they made this official rule change, and nobody likes to make an official change to the official rule change. whistle

Btw. I can fully understand if Juho wants to keep his moderator in line with the official rules. No explanations required, and pointing to the official rules is sufficient to explain why things work the way they do.

This being said, I support the suggestion a few replies up by James: you can always make a house rule in your FtF games to use Ss v4. Ss v4 is the same as Ss v5 (which became the official rule change), just that shapeshifting costs 4pw and not 5pw.
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Gambia
Brest
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DocCool wrote:
TheTungstenSword wrote:
I would love the change from Shapeshifters v5 to Shapeshifters v4 to be approved by the designers before playing a game with Shapeshifters v4 (yeah, I'm a filthy bureaucrat).
...which I doubt will ever happen. After all, they made this official rule change, and nobody likes to make an official change to the official rule change. whistle

Btw. I can fully understand if Juho wants to keep his moderator in line with the official rules. No explanations required, and pointing to the official rules is sufficient to explain why things work the way they do.

This being said, I support the suggestion a few replies up by James: you can always make a house rule in your FtF games to use Ss v4. Ss v4 is the same as Ss v5 (which became the official rule change), just that shapeshifting costs 4pw and not 5pw.


I don't want to refrain you from using v4 instead of v5, but when you look at snellman stats for elo 1000+, 4players, shapeshifters v5 stand over riverwalkers v5.

Shapeshifters global stats are burndened by 3p and 5p. For 3p there is less possibility to trigger their special ability, whereas for 5p they might lack good shapeshifting color options. But stats show they are quite fine for 4p.

Imo, the v5 was not a mistake. Shapeshifters v4 might have been at risk of being too strong for 4p higher elo games.

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