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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: RtL: Let's talk Hard rss

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Christopher Lomas
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Previously I'd read that the only difference between Hard and Normal in the app was that perils would trigger more often. We totally ignore the perils anyway so I picked Hard to find out if that was true.

After actually playing it I don't know if that's true. It seems like I get more monsters and stronger monsters than before. I've played through three times and this is the fourth so it's not just a case of one Normal campaign and one Hard campaign.

I'll definitely agree that there's more perils as well. I just want to know if anyone knows if it's confirmation bias or it really is changing how/where monsters spawn.

Incidentally I wish the way Perils worked was more about progressing. Rather than "You've now taken 15 rounds in this level, here's a peril" it can be "It's 4 turns since you progressed and opened a door, here's a peril".
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Mike K
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Interesting. And agree with the Perils point. We played it once on hard and found the perils to actually detract slightly from the theme. One level we just had tons of zombies or goblins turning up every couple turns and become more tedious than story driven as we are a play by the book type gamers who cant bring ourselves to ignore rules. So we played on normal and had more fun but felt we wanted to have that doomed feeling you got from the pod packs where it was more about if you can survive not about how fast you can get though a level before a chance effect loses it for you.
 
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Christopher Lomas
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badmike01 wrote:
Interesting. And agree with the Perils point. We played it once on hard and found the perils to actually detract slightly from the theme. One level we just had tons of zombies or goblins turning up every couple turns and become more tedious than story driven as we are a play by the book type gamers who cant bring ourselves to ignore rules. So we played on normal and had more fun but felt we wanted to have that doomed feeling you got from the pod packs where it was more about if you can survive not about how fast you can get though a level before a chance effect loses it for you.


I hate things like "Oh you're all poisoned" coming up randomly in missions, it does spoil it for me. If we're having difficulty clearing a room then making it even harder feels a bit like they're going "Haha you're dead now".

It's a shame the only place you see the LT boxes you've purchased is in Major Perils though.
 
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Fox Reinard
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We're holding hope for a side quest set involving Lieutenant packs. It seems like a thing that might happen.

Since I bought all of them, I'd certainly be thrilled by that.
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Mike K
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Yeah agree with the Lt's. However they just made H&M packs better by retro actively adding in special missions and alternate tile.sets for those missions which is awesome, who says there's not something in store for the Lt packs in the pipeline, they are obviously listening and responding to the talk.

I know its a pipedream but I wish they would give the app more of a 'computer game' treatment where you could play "unlocked" quests in a level select way and play a 1-off epic quest fully powered sort of thing, even choosing monster groups ect.
 
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Aaron Chasteen
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Taear wrote:
We totally ignore the perils anyway so I picked Hard to find out if that was true.

How does ignoring the perils work? Do you just click through them or is there an option in the app?

Which is harder - Normal with peril or Hard without peril? How much easier is it?
 
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Christian Schepers
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achasteen wrote:
Taear wrote:
We totally ignore the perils anyway so I picked Hard to find out if that was true.

How does ignoring the perils work? Do you just click through them or is there an option in the app?


Simply click them away, it's what we do all the time, they are really annoying and not much fun for us.

I hate timers, if we want to go through the dungeon at a slower pace, so what? We're playing this with the whole family (mom, dad and the kids) and the role-playing part is much more important to us than anything else, especially any approach that relies heavily on getting the best out of each player's turn and using as much abilities and synergies between them as possible to minimize the number of turns needed to succeed. To us that's no fun at all.

Instead we have much more fun by exploiting the role-playing part, only lately our little Tomble Burrowell (played by mom) got into a serious argument with the group's dwarf (played by son) about silly ways of walking around the scene, showing off with weapons and generally being not very helpful in any regard. This resulted in the group splitting up and taking different paths and into taking some serious blows by enemy units, simply because the two of them weren't acting very reasonable, but kept yelling at each other. SO MUCH fun!

tl;dr
Click away the silly perils!
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Christopher Lomas
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achasteen wrote:
Taear wrote:
We totally ignore the perils anyway so I picked Hard to find out if that was true.

How does ignoring the perils work? Do you just click through them or is there an option in the app?

Which is harder - Normal with peril or Hard without peril? How much easier is it?


I click them all away. Normal or Hard. I tend to only see them in one or two of the Normal quests though, ones like Prison Break or the finale that often take a long time. The only one you can't ignore is "In two turns the game will end" but usually we're on the final turn by then anyway.
In hard they're appearing after only ten rounds or so which is absolutely insane.

We went on to hard because we beat normal quite quickly but Hard really does feel a little over the top and it's not much fun. It's as though it's built assuming you never miss. And I don't mean making mistakes I mean you've missed two attacks so now you're definitely behind and you're getting a huge pile of perils.

The biggest shame about it is that as a person who owns every single monster pack and expansion I feel like I'm missing out on tonnes of monsters, I assume because they're more likely to appear on Hard. In now a total of four campaigns I've never seen Trolls and only seen Ogres once. Manticores I've only seen once, on hard. Giants I've never seen.
It's very peculiar. Especially since a few monsters like Lava Beetles have turned up absolutely tonnes.
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Johannes Benedikt
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There is definitly a monster upgrade in hard mode. For instance in my games all the cave spider groups get upgraded to arachnuyas (although I'm not so sure if this is really harder) and menders get upgraded to sorcerers. Regardless when I was playing on normal, I got quite a few cave spiders and never saw arachnuyas, on hard it was the other way around. I also haven't encountered menders on hard yet.

On the part about skipping perils, do whatever makes the game fun for you and your group. My group on the other hand has won all the quests so far without dying at all (except in one quest) and that was despite playing on hard and applying all the peril effects. For my group RtL is too easy on hard mode with the perils, I think if it weren't for the perils, we would have stopped playing RtL, because if it's too easy, Descent really loses everything that makes it a game.
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Christopher Lomas
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DA_Maz wrote:
There is definitly a monster upgrade in hard mode. For instance in my games all the cave spider groups get upgraded to arachnuyas (although I'm not so sure if this is really harder) and menders get upgraded to sorcerers. Regardless when I was playing on normal, I got quite a few cave spiders and never saw arachnuyas, on hard it was the other way around. I also haven't encountered menders on hard yet.


I find that quite surprising. For us even with a really optimum group Arachuyas are extremely hard to kill at the start of the game.
That said it's just two of us playing and before the app I'd only ever been the overlord.
 
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Johannes Benedikt
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Taear wrote:
DA_Maz wrote:
There is definitly a monster upgrade in hard mode. For instance in my games all the cave spider groups get upgraded to arachnuyas (although I'm not so sure if this is really harder) and menders get upgraded to sorcerers. Regardless when I was playing on normal, I got quite a few cave spiders and never saw arachnuyas, on hard it was the other way around. I also haven't encountered menders on hard yet.


I find that quite surprising. For us even with a really optimum group Arachuyas are extremely hard to kill at the start of the game.
That said it's just two of us playing and before the app I'd only ever been the overlord.


In RtL sadly dmg output and HP values are the most maybe even only important things (which really makes party composition quite easy in contrast to the real 1vsmany style), also summons/familiars are extremely strong. Grey Ker is very powerfull as well. With Grey Ker and a class with familiar you can get in 4 attacks, before any monster activates, which is enough to kill at least one arachuya, the other one attacks your familiar and one hero.

Cave spiders can get pretty annoying if you don't manage to deal enough dmg, to kill 1 with every action. In my expirience those many attacks of the cave spiders along with the conditions they can deal, are at least as dangerous as arachuyas or even more dangerous (especially at the beginning when you don't have powerfull weapons).
 
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Christopher Lomas
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DA_Maz wrote:
Taear wrote:
DA_Maz wrote:
There is definitly a monster upgrade in hard mode. For instance in my games all the cave spider groups get upgraded to arachnuyas (although I'm not so sure if this is really harder) and menders get upgraded to sorcerers. Regardless when I was playing on normal, I got quite a few cave spiders and never saw arachnuyas, on hard it was the other way around. I also haven't encountered menders on hard yet.


I find that quite surprising. For us even with a really optimum group Arachuyas are extremely hard to kill at the start of the game.
That said it's just two of us playing and before the app I'd only ever been the overlord.


In RtL sadly dmg output and HP values are the most maybe even only important things (which really makes party composition quite easy in contrast to the real 1vsmany style), also summons/familiars are extremely strong. Grey Ker is very powerfull as well. With Grey Ker and a class with familiar you can get in 4 attacks, before any monster activates, which is enough to kill at least one arachuya, the other one attacks your familiar and one hero.

Cave spiders can get pretty annoying if you don't manage to deal enough dmg, to kill 1 with every action. In my expirience those many attacks of the cave spiders along with the conditions they can deal, are at least as dangerous as arachuyas or even more dangerous (especially at the beginning when you don't have powerfull weapons).


We tend to ignore the Familiars with monsters except in very specific situations. I know that's not quite rules as written but if I were the overlord there's just no way in hell I'd ever be using a monster to attack a familiar.
There are times that it is the right thing to do for the monster but they're few and far between!

And my problem more than anything and the reason we've nearly lost some levels is missing. Constantly missing. The monsters do it too, to be fair. For a 1/6 chance it happens in probably half of our attacks and I'm starting to think my dice might be a bit damaged.
 
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Johannes Benedikt
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Taear wrote:
DA_Maz wrote:
Taear wrote:
DA_Maz wrote:
There is definitly a monster upgrade in hard mode. For instance in my games all the cave spider groups get upgraded to arachnuyas (although I'm not so sure if this is really harder) and menders get upgraded to sorcerers. Regardless when I was playing on normal, I got quite a few cave spiders and never saw arachnuyas, on hard it was the other way around. I also haven't encountered menders on hard yet.


I find that quite surprising. For us even with a really optimum group Arachuyas are extremely hard to kill at the start of the game.
That said it's just two of us playing and before the app I'd only ever been the overlord.


In RtL sadly dmg output and HP values are the most maybe even only important things (which really makes party composition quite easy in contrast to the real 1vsmany style), also summons/familiars are extremely strong. Grey Ker is very powerfull as well. With Grey Ker and a class with familiar you can get in 4 attacks, before any monster activates, which is enough to kill at least one arachuya, the other one attacks your familiar and one hero.

Cave spiders can get pretty annoying if you don't manage to deal enough dmg, to kill 1 with every action. In my expirience those many attacks of the cave spiders along with the conditions they can deal, are at least as dangerous as arachuyas or even more dangerous (especially at the beginning when you don't have powerfull weapons).


We tend to ignore the Familiars with monsters except in very specific situations. I know that's not quite rules as written but if I were the overlord there's just no way in hell I'd ever be using a monster to attack a familiar.
There are times that it is the right thing to do for the monster but they're few and far between!

And my problem more than anything and the reason we've nearly lost some levels is missing. Constantly missing. The monsters do it too, to be fair. For a 1/6 chance it happens in probably half of our attacks and I'm starting to think my dice might be a bit damaged.


Well I'm very successfull as an OL and I got to say that I often try to kill the familiars, but of course it's very dependent on the particular situation. Since normal Descent is very rarly about killing the heroes this of course makes much more sense in the traditional style than in the app scenario, but even then I find it to be a good choice to kill the wolf (for instance) before everyone gets a green bonus die for attacks and before the Beastmaster can attack practically 3 times in the next round.

That's why familiars are so strong in RtL. Either monsters try to kill them and don't work toward their winning condition, but severly limit your damage output, or they don't kill them and in return have to deal with up to 2 more attacks (1 from the familiar and 1 more from the hero, who doesn't have to use one action to resummon the familiar). So familiars are pretty much a lose-lose situation in RtL for the AI.

Misses can be a pain though. There are very few abilities/items that let you reroll a die, but if you have access to them go for them if you are having a hard time. Also if you really think the die is off, test it with a large enough sample size to be sure. Otherwise I often found that people complaining about misses just aren't getting enough attacks in on the monsters, to avoid that, don't forget about ranged weapons that usually let you attack twice if needed and to use your fatigue to move and attack twice.
 
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