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Subject: Enemy fire chart blue player aid rss

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Tom Manning
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Took a break from PB to give my head a "rules-break"..came back last night and immediately faced combat....when checking the blue enemy fire chart,I came across the statement:"roll 2D for every enemy on the board"does that mean that the 4 Sherman's I have on the board take a roll from each enemy? And the resulting rolls apply each time? That cannot be right....can it? Hope my post makes sense.. Thanks
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Andrew Borgelin
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No I think it just means that friendly action from all the task force causes a roll to be made against each enemy currently on the board. The result will cause causalties to the enemy, smoke to be laid or other events. So one roll on the chart for each enemy on the board not multiple rolls. Hope this helps?

Oops just re-read your question and realise that I have answered the wrong thing. Do you mean the enemy action charts which are dependant upon whether you are in a battle scenario, advance scenario or counterattack scenarios?

If so the statement means for each enemy currently on the board you find out what they intend to do which will usually be some kind of move or possibly fire action against your tank or one of the other task force tanks or infantry. So for each enemy unit on the battle board at that point roll the 2D10's to get a % figure read down the column for the type of unit acting and then read across to see what that enemy unit will do. The chart will tell you whether they fire at your tank, another friendly tank, infantry or just move somewhere else on the battle board.

Hope this helped s if not or I have again misunderstood your question then please come back to me and I will try an explain!

Cheers

Andy B
 
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Tom Manning
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Hatricvs wrote:
No I think it just means that friendly action from all the task force causes a roll to be made against each enemy currently on the board. The result will cause causalties to the enemy, smoke to be laid or other events. So one roll on the chart for each enemy on the board not multiple rolls. Hope this helps?

Oops just re-read your question and realise that I have answered the wrong thing. Do you mean the enemy action charts which are dependant upon whether you are in a battle scenario, advance scenario or counterattack scenarios?

If so the statement means for each enemy currently on the board you find out what they intend to do which will usually be some kind of move or possibly fire action against your tank or one of the other task force tanks or infantry. So for each enemy unit on the battle board at that point roll the 2D10's to get a % figure read down the column for the type of unit acting and then read across to see what that enemy unit will do. The chart will tell you whether they fire at your tank, another friendly tank, infantry or just move somewhere else on the battle board.

Hope this helped s if not or I have again misunderstood your question then please come back to me and I will try an explain!

Cheers
A

Andy B

Andy,
Spot on as far as my question was concerned..thanks...BUT,Again using the advance scenario...I take it each enemy gets one roll...correct?now,what % column r u referencing? The enemy action table?and if so,do the numbers under each type represent a percentile rather numbers for rolling a hit?
Think that's what u are saying....am I right? Or just dumb...?how do u resolve MG fire...and under the enemy fire combat chart...again,does that represent percentiles? Always one step forward and 2 back...I'm about ready to shelve this for a while and move on...rules leave a ton to be desired!any other pertinent info you wish to pass along will be greatly appreciated.BTW,I have enemy coast ahead -dam busters (very user) friendly calling my name.
Thanks,
Tom
 
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Andrew Borgelin
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Re: Enemy fire chart blue player ai

Andy,
Spot on as far as my question was concerned..thanks..

BUT,Again using the advance scenario...I take it each enemy gets one roll...correct?

Yep that's spot on, so if an enemy tank was on the battle board you would roll the 2d10 declare which colour die is lead is blue represents the first number and red the second and that would give you your result and yes sorry this is a number not a % my bad! Let's say you got a 33 then the enemy tank would move to the right of your tank. If on the other hand your result was a 68 then the enemy tank would fire at a tank other than yours. If an 83 was scored then the enemy tank would fire at your tank! Lead tank may be another tank in the platoon or possibly your tank depending on the result on the deployment table prior to this combat starting.

To take the example further if you scored a fire at another tank you would check the range the enemy tank is from your platoons location in close, medium or long range. You would then check the calibre of the gun firing let's say it is an 88mm at medium range. The number given on the chart means the enemy tank will kill the friendly tank if you roll a 63 or less on a 2d10 roll.

If the enemy fires at your tank specifically then you will use the more detailed charts specific to an attack on your tank.


how do u resolve MG fire...and under the enemy fire combat chart..

Do you mean MG fire against your forces or your MG fire against the enemy?

If it is against your friendly forces it is the same as above using the same chart as the tank firing. The column under MG/LW again shows the number needed to see what an MG team intends to do. Note the MG Team may move, fire at infantry, or fire at your tank. If they fire at infantry check the enemy Fire Combat Chart under to kill an infantry squad and read across from MG/PSW and again at medium range you will see that you require to roll a 30 or less to kill that squad. The only time it might fire at you, it is treated slightly differently. Note it says the result range is from 96 to 100+ then the MG team fire at you! If they do then this is resolved on the collateral table (see note in the table). You would then roll on that table which will tell you what the effect on your tank or crew is. Again let's say a roll of 56 was achieved it would mean the gunner periscope had been damaged. If a 94 was rolled then commander may have been wounded if he was not buttoned up when the fire occurred, ie he had been directing fire from an open turret position or firing the .50 cal or some such thing.


Always one step forward and 2 back...I'm about ready to shelve this for a while and move on...rules leave a ton to be desired!
Thanks,
Tom

Keep with it the game can be very immersive and I agree the rules are not always very clear and where to look for the info can be a problem. It can be a long game when the action hots up but once you get it , it can give really great stories about your action in that Sherman...so stick with it and if you have any questions just give me a shout and I will try and help.

Cheers

Andy B
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Tom Manning
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Thanks Andy,I will give it another shot this PM...would u mind re reading my query about percentiles...? Still a bit foggy on that....also...enemy is entitled to one roll each during combat phase,right?
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Tom Manning
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Andy....forget about percentiles...I reread ur post..it's clearer now...great example.Not sure what the Enemy AP % means...how to decipher it..
Truly appreciate al the time you put into my making sure I get my act right..this board keeps me going..with the kind responses I got,I would have shelved this game a while back...If the rules were spelled out the way you presented them to me,this game would be so much simpler to grasp!
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Andrew Borgelin
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Hi Tom,

I am just about winding up for tonight so won't be able to answer your questions at the mo, other than yes it is one attack from each enemy currently on the battle board. I will get to your other question tomorrow and try to give you a worked answer on if someone is firing at your tank and the associated charts etc.

Cheers

Andy B
 
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Tom Manning
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Terrific Andy...will look forward to your further tutorlidge..
You have the patience of Job!
The adoption papers will be mailed Monday...
Gracias,Amigo
 
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Edwin David Bliss
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hodges69 wrote:
Not sure what the Enemy AP % means...how to decipher it..

After you have established that the enemy are firing at "Your Tank", you need to follow the procedure laid out in Rule 13.4. Also, see the Tables Notes (bottom right of table), re how to read the table information.

Example :

Having established where the shot hits your tank ( using the Hit Location table ), you need to note 3 other things : 1) The type of gun firing at you, 2) the facing of your Tank (to the enemy) and 3) your tanks armour class. Lets say that a 75L Gun is firing at your Tank from the Side, and that your Armour Class is I ; also that the hit location is Hull. Check under the 75L Gun part of the table at 2nd column and first row. This yields two table results. As the Hit is on the Hull you use the H result of : H 95/95/92. This result shows the number (%) needed to Kill at close/medium/long range ( as per table note 2) ); therefore if the gun was at long range then a roll of 92
( or less ) is required to Kill.
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Tom Manning
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Will do...keep forgetting to fire MG during combat steps....
Need clarification....when calling in,and getting,arty or air strikes,you have to designate an area for the enemy.... Example sector 5...medium range...correct? Or is the there an assumption that the strikes will hit all enemies at every location? I also assume that US infantry is assumed,rather than shown....
Thanks,
Tom
 
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Edwin David Bliss
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Quote:
Need clarification....when calling in,and getting,arty or air strikes,you have to designate an area for the enemy.... Example sector 5...medium range...correct? Or is the there an assumption that the strikes will hit all enemies at every location? I also assume that US infantry is assumed,rather than shown....

Area/s ( on Movement board ( "Map" )), not sector/s ( Battleboard ).

The markers are initially placed in Movement board Areas. When your Task Force enters an area containing one ( or more ) of these markers, you transfer them to the Battleboard. You then roll for each enemy unit placed on the Battleboard immediately after all enemy placements have been completed. Therefore, to use your jargon "the strikes will hit all enemies at every location". I suggest you place the markers somewhere in the Tan area surrounding the Green Sectors ( perhaps by the Weather marker boxes ).

[ Note that if you designate both Art. Support and an Air Strike, there will be 2 rolls per enemy unit. It is also possible to have more than one Art. Support marker (or more than one Air Strike marker) in the same area (thus increasing the number of rolls applicable - one roll per unit per marker). Thus a maximum of 5 rolls per unit is possible. ]

US Infantry are indeed presumed.
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Andrew Borgelin
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Tom,

Looks like you have some more input now. Are you happy with attacks on your tank now? If so I can stand down and let others respond to your questions following on.

Cheers

Andy B
 
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Edwin David Bliss
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My last reply was given 2 thumbs up whilst I was editing / rewording it.

Thanks Guys - however, perhaps you should reread and reconsider though ( in view of the changes made ).

 
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Tom Manning
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DEB8 wrote:
Quote:
Need clarification....when calling in,and getting,arty or air strikes,you have to designate an area for the enemy.... Example sector 5...medium range...correct? Or is the there an assumption that the strikes will hit all enemies at every location? I also assume that US infantry is assumed,rather than shown....

Area/s ( on Movement board ( "Map" )), not sector/s ( Battleboard ).

The markers are initially placed in Movement board Areas. When your Task Force enters an area containing one ( or more ) of these markers, you transfer them to the Battleboard. You then roll for each enemy unit placed on the Battleboard immediately after all enemy placements have been completed. Therefore, to use your jargon "the strikes will hit all enemies at every location". I suggest you place the markers somewhere in the Tan area surrounding the Green Sectors ( perhaps by the Weather marker boxes ).

[ Note that if you designate both Art. Support and an Air Strike, there will be 2 rolls per enemy unit. It is also possible to have more than one Art. Support marker (or more than one Air Strike marker) in the same area (thus increasing the number of rolls applicable - one roll per unit per marker). Thus a maximum of 5 rolls per unit is possible. ]

US Infantry are indeed presumed.


I am being a "little"hard headed here,but is that a yes?I realize that the markers have to be in the correct zones in order to have FF hit them....
But the Arty and air strikes do not have to hit the zones the enemy is in for a hit?
Thank you for your answer and putting up with my confusion.
 
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Tom Manning
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Hatricvs wrote:
Tom,

Looks like you have some more input now. Are you happy with attacks on your tank now? If so I can stand down and let others respond to your questions following on.

Cheers

Andy B

Andy,
Think once I get the arty and air strike questions answered,I might be weaned...will give no guarantees
 
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Tom Manning
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hodges69 wrote:
Hatricvs wrote:
Tom,

Looks like you have some more input now. Are you happy with attacks on your tank now? If so I can stand down and let others respond to your questions following on.

Cheers

Andy B

Andy,
Think once I get the arty and air strike questions answered,I might be weaned...will give no guarantees

Want to thank you all here for all the assistance I got to help this game go from a chore to an enjoyable experience..
To all I give the old US Navy ultimate compliment:
"Baker-Zebra.....or in the the newer parlance:
"Bravo-Zulu"
Most sincerely,
Tom
 
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Gary Logs
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Tom,

Andy and Edwin have done a good job of clarifying. I think you are getting there, baptism of fire...err rules if you will.

Based on your last open question and their time zone for a response, I might add that each pre-art/air strike you succeeded in adding to an "area" you advance into on the movement map only adds a marker to each enemy occupied "zone" on the initial battle board setup (if a battle occurs for that area when you move in). Roll for effect on each marker in the initial battle round. These pre-strikes only occur on the opening battle board cycle per the play sequence.

Bravo Zulu to you sir for pushing on, I'm from the 80's era Navy.


 
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Andrew Borgelin
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Tom and anyone else interested in this game. For some campaign fun with this game take a look at this play by forum set up...it is fun and there is some interesting discussion about rules and interpretations too. Also the AAR section might give you an idea about how others are tackling some of the issues you have and there may be some things there that prompt some further insight or thoughts on game play etc....hope to see you over there soon!


The 4th Armored Division's Campaign through Europe (Patton's Best)


Cheers

Andy B
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Tom Manning
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Okay guys?.have to live up to my big P.I.A reputation here and verify that I got it...Arty rules state (23.1) :"Arty support takes effect immediately after any appearing enemy units are placed on the Battle Board".I would interpret that as thus: if combat occurs...you place the enemy(whatever type is rolled for) in the sector,range,facing and terrain...then move and and resolve arty,in the sector(s) enemy is in....then FF.. Correct?
Confusion comes from the opening paragraph that states "if the roll is sucessfull,place an arty marker in the area you wish the arty marker to land."
What the hell am I missing....do you choose the sector and place markers..in
the area you guess the enemy will be in....or does the arty land,every time,
At a sector the enemy is in regardless of marker placement..?or is my confusion coming from area and sector meanings?
Incidentally,played last night...random events killed me..gun malfunction.tried to repair,broken...enemy got a PZ replacement....and a Marder replacement...b4 random rolls,I was dealing with the last enemy...a MG unit..my mistake,as I now see it,was moving closer for a higher % roll..moved forward hull down...missed my shot...after that ,I was pretty much dead in the water...gun broken..next random 2 turns reinforcement armor shows up...used smoke MG Close and straight ahead...could not fire MG in a hull down position...request for arty denied..overcast..no air support..was afraid to use my Thompson as I would be exposed...great game...felt completely powerless....will continue to night as I notated all that is going on WHEW!and one does rolled for Random effects after each turn,right?
 
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Gary Logs
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hodges69 wrote:
...Arty rules state (23.1) :"Arty support takes effect immediately after any appearing enemy units are placed on the Battle Board".I would interpret that as thus: if combat occurs...you place the enemy(whatever type is rolled for) in the sector,range,facing and terrain


Yes (ref 4.63)

hodges69 wrote:
...then move


No movement, but I'm not sure what move you were referring to:

- if friendly move into new map area, you have already moved into the area on the movement map which caused the battle board to be setup (ref 4.54.5, this occurred before 4.63).
- if friendly move on battle board, that doesn't happen until you give orders to move (ref 4.74.1)
- if enemy move on battle board that doesn't happen until later in the battle sequence (ref 4.75)

hodges69 wrote:
and and resolve arty,in the sector(s) enemy is in....then FF.. Correct?


Yes. Resolve via the friendly action table (ref 4.64), the arty/air strikes markers for each enemy unit "on the battle board" and for each enemy unit in a zone (not sector) "with adv fire markers" in it . Note: arty and air strikes automatically hit all enemy units on the board, adv fire markers only hit those enemy units the showed up where you placed them (ref 4.61 which is before 4.63 - place enemy units)

hodges69 wrote:
Confusion comes from the opening paragraph that states "if the roll is sucessfull,place an arty marker in the area you wish the arty marker to land." What the hell am I missing....do you choose the sector and place markers..in the area you guess the enemy will be in....or does the arty land,every time, At a sector the enemy is in regardless of marker placement..?or is my confusion coming from area and sector meanings?


You place the arty marker on a "movement map" area when successfully rolled (ref 4.54.2, this is before any battle starts 4.6). It stays the rest of the day on the movement map until you enter that map area. If a combat occurs those markers in that area will move to the battle board (to the side somewhere) to remind you to attack all enemy units on the battle board per above in 4.64 (same for air strikes). Only the adv fire option gets put in specific battle board zones before enemy setup if an actual battle occurs from your movement map move (4.54.5a-c).
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Gary Logs
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hodges69 wrote:

Incidentally,played last night...random events killed me..gun malfunction.tried to repair,broken...enemy got a PZ replacement....and a Marder replacement...b4 random rolls,I was dealing with the last enemy...a MG unit..my mistake,as I now see it,was moving closer for a higher % roll..moved forward hull down...missed my shot...after that ,I was pretty much dead in the water...gun broken..next random 2 turns reinforcement armor shows up...used smoke MG Close and straight ahead...could not fire MG in a hull down position...request for arty denied..overcast..no air support..was afraid to use my Thompson as I would be exposed...great game...felt completely powerless....will continue to night as I notated all that is going on WHEW!and one does rolled for Random effects after each turn,right?


Didn't see the question in this one. A few comments:

- The art/air support for a battle only happens at the first battle board setup (ref 4.6). Once you are in the battle turn cycles (ref 4.7), you don't roll again for this battle.
- The battle continues cycling turns through section 4.7 steps (ref 4.71-4.77) which could only end at 4.77 step 2.
- 4.77 has these three steps:
1. Random event (yes every battle turn cycle until over after step 2)
2. Battle Board empty of enemy units - end battle! Record map area control and VPs, go back to step 4.4 (battle turn cycles of 4.7 are now over)
3. If it didn't end in step 2 Go back to 4.71 (Smoke depletion) and perform another battle turn cycle 4.71-4.77.


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Tom Manning
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Thanks to all...it finally sunk in....one question left...one leaves all US control markers on map after resolving battle...Right? If so,when rolling for new entrance and exit areas....with time left,of course,can you enter those areas without rolling for resistance?
If no..my question is self answered..also did anyone ever have an exit area clear across the map board..ie,10-6?
 
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Gary Logs
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After each battle you end up back in the movement map (with the task force hopefully still in the newly won battle area) and executing the 4.5 steps for the next area move choices, ultimately driving towards the exit area.

If you reach the exit area with time left in the day you clear the movement map of control markers and basically start with a fresh new map like before, pushing on through new countryside. I can't say for sure when I've successfully done a 10-6 before or not but I believe so. I do remember getting some and sweating forward, every minute and ammo round counted.

Thanks for the updates of how it is going, sounds like you are getting more and more of the play experience and less of the rules! Good luck and make Patton proud.
 
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Tom Manning
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I guess I wasn't quite clear...lets assume it's 1300..plenty of time left before sunset....I know you have to rinse and repeat,but do you leave the hard won US control markers in the conquered areas..or are they removed?if they stay ...can you read-enter said area without time penalty for re-con?
Thanks again...
 
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Gary Logs
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If you win a battle, place a control marker on the movement map area of the battle (ref 4.77 step 2). You can move around the map into controlled areas to backtrack towards finding a better attack route if helpful but it eats up time and VPs/battles don't rackup in those area moves. The goal is to push forward through uncontrolled areas to the exit area and completing the day's objective and scoring VPs. Of course surviving helps too. Its all part of your command decision tradeoffs. shake

If you do control the exit area with daylight left you basically met the initial objective and then are resetting to a whole new one. Clear the mapboard of control markers and roll for a new entry/exit, start over on this new mission. Then you continue as before on this until daylight runs out.

After daylight runs out everything gets cleared and you go on to the next day's calendar's directives, no mapboard control carry over from previous day.
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