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Codex: Card-Time Strategy – Deluxe Set» Forums » General

Subject: Much love to David Sirlin for this rss

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David
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I'm going slowly through the game, sleeving the cards, and I come across the Morningstar Flagbearer. I'm pretty ecstatic because I don't think I've ever seen such a prominent representation of the rainbow flag in a board game.

But then I notice the flavor text, and I legit choke and can't hold back some tears.

Thank you Sir.
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James Mathias
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I thought this was rad too!
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Chris McLeod
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Yup. Kudos to he and his team.
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Mark Bigney
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Very nice. Very classy.
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Liam C.
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The flavor for the Morningstar Sanctuary (Codex's white faction) is that it is considered a place of free thinking and openness to be yourself, away from the oppression that exists in Flagstone. One of the characters from Yomi and Puzzle Strike, Valerie, is Morningstar's artistic advisor and arrived because she is bi-sexual, something considered a crime in Flagstone.
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Richard Evan Lopez
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Thanks so much for noticing! The flavor text, art, and faction representation are all quite intentional!

In our upcoming fighting game (more info on this soon ), Valerie's dress is her normal rainbow gradient as shown here:



...but one of her costume color options changes it to a striped rainbow pride flag, too
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Jon Visser
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I was so excited to get this game.... I will never purchase it now. I will never knowingly support organizations or people who support hate, bigotry, and intollerance by forcing their unscientific "feelings" of human sexuality on others. Thanks for saving me $225. I'll buy another game.
 
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A. C.
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I'm so confused. Are you saying that supporting LGBT+ rights is tantamount to supporting hate, bigotry, and intolerance?
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Jon Visser
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Exactly.
 
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Martyn King
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A homophobic internet troll, how original. The codex community will be devastated they're losing you.
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gonzalo GIlabert
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citizen77 wrote:
I was so excited to get this game.... I will never purchase it now. I will never knowingly support organizations or people who support hate, bigotry, and intollerance by forcing their unscientific "feelings" of human sexuality on others. Thanks for saving me $225. I'll buy another game.


Let me write that right for you:
I dont like people that are different from me and I dont want anyone to support them...
hate doesnt need razionalizations...
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James Mathias
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citizen77 wrote:
I was so excited to get this game.... I will never purchase it now. I will never knowingly support organizations or people who support love, open-mindedness, and tolerance by allowing people to live their lives without being ridiculed or feeling different, because they don't fit some archaic societal norm. Thanks for saving me $225. I'll buy another game.


Fixed that for you. Also good riddance, the gaming community definitely doesn't need close-minded, hate filled hearts like yours.
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Matthew M
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Antagonistic, insulting, or otherwise disruptive comments ARE NOT welcome here.

Please use the icon when you see disruptive or antagonistic comments or any other violations of the Community Rules. This serves two purposes:

1- using the icon will bring that post to the attention of forum moderators so they can deal with it appropriately. We prefer that you not respond to the post directly. Responding invites the offender to continue, and if you respond aggressively you may end up dragging yourself down with the offender.

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Thanks!
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Everett
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Woah woah woah, LGTBQ is a hate group now?


I mean, they go overboard a bit on occasion, but hate group is a massive stretch for an organization that supports minorities.
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David
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It would be nice if we had a real block function on bgg, the closest thing being "hide a user's post". Oh well.
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David
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Hey Everett,

LGBTQ is an umbrella term for a community of people (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer/questionning, etc) and their allies, but being part of that community does not necessarily mean that you belong to a specific group or organization like the Human Rights Campaign, PFLAG, etc. Some do, some don't.
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Nick E
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I haven't had much of a chance to delve into my Deluxe edition yet but I did unwraps all the cards and quickly flipped through them. I didn't notice this card, or if I did see it then it didn't stick in my mind, but that is definitely a cool thing to add. That flavor text is perfect.
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thechyper wrote:
citizen77 wrote:
I was so excited to get this game.... I will never purchase it now. I will never knowingly support organizations or people who support hate, bigotry, and intollerance by forcing their unscientific "feelings" of human sexuality on others. Thanks for saving me $225. I'll buy another game.


Let me write that right for you:
I dont like people that are different from me and I dont want anyone to support them...
hate doesnt need razionalizations...


Jon's point is valid despite his delivery being off the mark. He's free to boycott Codex for having injected a social and political opinion that he disagrees with. That's his prerogative, and there's nothing wrong with that.

The problem is that Jon's broad sweeping complaint against the LGBT community is too generalized. It perpetuates a negative stereotype that isn't an accurate reflection of everyone in the LGBT community.

That said, there is a level of reverse-hate, bigotry, and intolerance being delivered by a vocal minority of the LGBT community toward communities such as Christians that disagree with their viewpoints.

For example, it has become socially acceptable to condemn pro-traditional marriage proponents as bigots or homophobes while mandating that they accept LGBT ideology that goes against their moral code. There are countless social justice warrior videos online that showcase exceptionally mean-spirited behavior from members of the LGBT community.

Many people on this thread don't like Jon's viewpoint because they are different from their own, so they won't support him. They may not even like my viewpoint, and that's alright. We don't have to agree. But I believe there are two main points of view to the Morningstar Flag-bearer's underlying message, and unfortunately Jon has painted one of those viewpoints in a bad light.

I kickstarted the deluxe version of Codex because I was a fan of every game David Sirlin has made. Up to this point, I was unaware of any of Sirlin's social and political beliefs. I'm assuming the Morningstar Flag-bearer card's artwork and flavor text were a conscious decision made by the designer. I was disappointed to see this kind of social or political statement being made in a board game, but I admit that it is a very subtle statement that I would've overlooked had it not been brought to my attention in this thread.

I'm curious to know if the card artwork and text had been pro-traditional marriage, would there be the same amount of support? There seems to be a double standard as I believe the response from pro-LGBT members would be far more inflammatory and vocal if this were the case than Jon's comments.

I personally have boycotted several companies as of late such as Starbucks for their comments on our military or Target for their bathroom policy. These issues may be minor for some, but the truth is, it's simple for me to go to the local independent Coffee House or Wal-Mart instead. I don't make a big ordeal about avoiding these companies. I simply don't go to them and move on with my day. I would likely pay more attention to David Sirlin's next game to see if there is more of a forced social/political message before buying it.

So to sum all of this up, Jon is wrong in pigeon-holing an entire organization as bigots and haters. But his decision to avoid Codex is perfectly justified, and there is some truth to his statement. I personally wish the social/political statement of this card had been left out, but just as I support Chick-Fil-A for varying reasons, I can understand why people support this card. And to be honest, the Morningstar Flag-Bearer card is a very unobtrusive way to convey this message when all things are considered, so I'll continue to enjoy the game and move on with my day.
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Anon Y. Mous
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imtylerdurden wrote:

I personally have boycotted several companies as of late such as Starbucks for their comments on our military or Target for their bathroom policy.


So you believe this man should use the women's bathroom because he was born female? How do you believe your alternative policy should be enforced? Mandatory genital inspections? Oh, but that won't exclude post-ops, so maybe you would require a DNA test.
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Michael Ralston
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imtylerdurden wrote:
I'm curious to know if the card artwork and text had been pro-traditional marriage, would there be the same amount of support? There seems to be a double standard as I believe the response from pro-LGBT members would be far more inflammatory and vocal if this were the case than Jon's comments.


Well, what do you MEAN by "pro-traditional marriage"? Do you mean, say, a card depicting a heterosexual married couple?
Because I think nobody would notice that, even if it was pointed out to them. It's too darn normal.

Or do you mean something explicitly advocating hating gays? 'cause ... see, when people advocate hate for people, they are called bigots, because that's what the word "bigot" means.
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David
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Can you just all stop.
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David
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I started this thread to express my joy at the discovery of this card. If you share this feeling, thumb the op. If you don't, move along: while I understand the temptation to make this about you and your superior morals, there are other forums for that.
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