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Chaos in the Old World» Forums » General

Subject: Better than Chaos in the Old World for 4 and 5 players rss

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Austin Andersen
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I generally don't try to start these types of arguments, but being as CitOW is OOP and probably won't see a reprint in the foreseeable future, I thought it might be a good idea to list some alternatives.

I want to know what other asymmetric games are awesome at 4 and 5 players. As far as I'm concerned, CitOW wins hands down at these player counts as far as a balanced confrontational game goes, but once again it is OOP; so, I want to know if anyone has played anything better at these player counts. I have my eye on Cry Havoc, as it looks like it may be what I'm looking for, at least for 4 players. I think Kemet is alright, but given the choice would much rather play CitOW.

Another thing I really like about CitOW is how different players are trying to do different things and that as a whole everyone has to keep the others in check.
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Craig Thompson-Wood
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Cthulhu Wars my game group and I referred to as "Chaos in the Old World Lite" The only thing, with a lite game, you normally sacrifice depth for a quicker game, but I found that in CW, you were sacrificing the depth and strategy for a game that was even longer! That is why I traded it away.

But what about Blood Rage? I am still warming up to it, but it plays at four and five player counts.

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Dave Mendiola
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I think Cthulhu Wars is objectively a better game at all player counts, except maybe 4. But the problems with Chaos become more apparent the more you play it.

1. Nurgle doesn't really have viable upgrade options. You're going to get one upgrade and it better be the one that grants VP when a spot is ruined.

2. The Event Cards can be a little too strong for the game. Rather than mixing things up, they can literally prevent a person from winning a game they should have won otherwise.
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Adam Steele
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Since this is my favorite tabletop game, I can't say anything is better, but Vast is very solid. It's still in production, but Kickstarter backers have received early copies. My friend backed it and it's become a hit at our LGS! It's basically a dungeon-crawl theme that prides itself on asymmetric gameplay. In Chaos, everyone has different abilities, but you're at least playing the same game. In Vast, each player works entirely differently! It also balances itself for literally every player combination.
If all players are present, their goals are as follows: the Knight enters the cave to slay the Dragon. The Goblins in the cave want to kill the Knight. The Dragon is just waking up from its long slumber, and needs to shrug off its sloth before escaping the cave (including eating some goblins for its hunger). The Cave player (yes, you play as the Cave) wants to expand out as much as possible, then collapse it on everybody. The Thief, which was enabled through Kickstarter backers, wants to steal treasures from everyone to (somehow) break his curse of everlasting life, but he's the "punch-me" clown for everyone else. He's easy to kill, but constantly respawns.
Everyone is constantly watching out for everyone else. The Cave almost won our last game because we almost completely forgot he was trying to win. I took it in the end, because although Goblins (my role) really can't stop the Cave in a 4-player game, I can at least aggro the Knight hard enough to not give the Cave time to win. I just love that, when played right, this is a constant struggle between your objectives and your vulnerabilities. In essence, that's what I get out of Chaos. Vast has a huge learning curve, but it's well worth it once it's released.
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Justin
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TIL: it's spelled Cthulhu, not Cthulu. I was just trying to search for the Wars game, and thought BGG search was broken
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Vinicius Matos
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Kemet and Blood Rage are nice games, but I consider both too superficial if compared with Chaos.
What about Lords of the Ice Garden last edition?
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John Petraitis
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+1 for Cthulhu Wars. I have CITOW on the trading block because of how much more fun & less dark it is.
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Joseph Courtight
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Isn't Gods war suppose to be a new and improved version of Cthulhu wars.

Although I am not convinced that Cthulhu wars or Gods war will be cheaper than finding a copy of Citow
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Aaron Gelb
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What about the soon-to-be-released Inis?

I also still love Nexus Ops, although I think it only goes to 4 players.
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Petteri Heino
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You can't go wrong with Cry Havoc. It is an asymmetric goodie
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Austin Andersen
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El_Mutanto wrote:
You can't go wrong with Cry Havoc. It is an asymmetric goodie


Not for 5, but I think Cry Havoc has the best chance of being the best asymmetric game for 4 that is in print and available.
 
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Niko
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Dalek5 wrote:
Isn't Gods war suppose to be a new and improved version of Cthulhu wars.
Not from what I understand.
They are similar games in that they are both asymmetrical, dudes on a map, action point allowance games, but so far all I've read points in the direction of them being different, rather than one being better.
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Austin Andersen
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Dalek5 wrote:
Isn't Gods war suppose to be a new and improved version of Cthulhu wars.

Although I am not convinced that Cthulhu wars or Gods war will be cheaper than finding a copy of Citow


I'm not sure either. From what I saw it looks as if Cthulhu Wars is OOP as well and Glorantha: The Gods War looks as if it costs $125 for base game with expansions costing as much if not more.

I'm looking for more affordable suggestions, but thanks.
 
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Niko
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bbblasterfire wrote:
Dalek5 wrote:
Isn't Gods war suppose to be a new and improved version of Cthulhu wars.

Although I am not convinced that Cthulhu wars or Gods war will be cheaper than finding a copy of Citow


I'm not sure either. From what I saw it looks as if Cthulhu Wars is OOP as well and Glorantha: The Gods War looks as if it costs $125 for base game with expansions costing as much if not more.

I'm looking for more affordable suggestions, but thanks.
Cuthulhu Wars is currently being reprinted and should be available again early next year. I think it will be priced similarly to Gods War though.
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Carquinyoli

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asgelb wrote:

I also still love Nexus Ops, although I think it only goes to 4 players.


I've played Nexus Ops at 2, 3 and 4 players and its fine at any number!
Though Nexus Ops is not assymetric.
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Rayne Smith
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Unfortunately, I doubt you will find one as good as CitOW out right now. So far, the closest I've found is Cry Havoc. It's an awesome game, but doesn't play 5. On a brighter note though, it plays a lot better at 2 and 3 players than CitOW does.
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Austin Andersen
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Kaic wrote:
Unfortunately, I doubt you will find one as good as CitOW out right now. So far, the closest I've found is Cry Havoc. It's an awesome game, but doesn't play 5. On a brighter note though, it plays a lot better at 2 and 3 players than CitOW does.


I'm seriously considering getting Cry Havoc to as my go to 3 player asymmetric direct conflict game.
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Niko J
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bbblasterfire wrote:
I'm seriously considering getting Cry Havoc to as my go to 3 player asymmetric direct conflict game.


It's comments like this that make it so hard for me to ignore all this cult of the new stuff.

Gah, off to watch some reviews.
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Sven
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jpetrai wrote:
+1 for Cthulhu Wars. I have CITOW on the trading block because of how much more fun & less dark it is.

When a Lovecraftian game is considered "less dark" the designer got something *very* wrong in my book...
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Niko
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Tanakor wrote:
jpetrai wrote:
+1 for Cthulhu Wars. I have CITOW on the trading block because of how much more fun & less dark it is.

When a Lovecraftian game is considered "less dark" the designer got something *very* wrong in my book...
I'd say the CitOW designers got something very right instead.
CW doesn't make it obvious that you are crushing humanity, the emphasis is on fighting other Great Old Ones.

Also, the map doesn't look like it's drawn on human skin, so there's that
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Noel
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Ze_German_Guy wrote:
Tanakor wrote:
jpetrai wrote:
+1 for Cthulhu Wars. I have CITOW on the trading block because of how much more fun & less dark it is.

When a Lovecraftian game is considered "less dark" the designer got something *very* wrong in my book...
I'd say the CitOW designers got something very right instead.
CW doesn't make it obvious that you are crushing humanity, the emphasis is on fighting other Great Old Ones.

Also, the map doesn't look like it's drawn on human skin, so there's that


It's certainly less... graphic.
There's no killing peasants, no corrupting of royalty or fighting heroes. CW doesn't have cards with pictures of people hanging, or a mechanic of overwhelming local resistance.
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Evan Dunn
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Blood Rage, Cthulhu Wars and Kemet all beat Chaos in the Old World for me by a mile. Not that Chaos was bad by any means, I just enjoy games more when factions don't have one or two very specific jobs they HAVE to do to maintain game balance.
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Aaron Gelb
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Did anyone mention Warparty?

Maybe a bit more of a "wargame" but definitely an asymetric game of conflict. Only plays to 4, though if I'm not mistaken.

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James 3
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4 player asymmetric game not mentioned: City of Remnants

http://www.plaidhatgames.com/games/city-of-remnants

only played in a handful of times, and not claiming its better, but its a thing. perhaps TOO many mechanics, but i do enjoy deck building combined with dudes on a map, and it truly is asymmetric.
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The Quirken
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bbblasterfire wrote:
I want to know what other asymmetric games are awesome at 4 and 5 players.

....

Another thing I really like about CitOW is how different players are trying to do different things and that as a whole everyone has to keep the others in check.


If you're up for co-op, the XCOM game is amazing. Very tense, and all 4 players have 100% different rulesets, but all 4 players have something the other players need, so you'll die if you don't coordinate (so basically the exact opposite of everyone trying to keep the others in check, but since you're fighting the game, it does maintain a little bit of that tension).

To clarify: in CotoW, the asymmetry still takes place on the same game board, and some of the mechanics are the same or similar. When I say 100% different, I mean 100% different. There's not a shared space or shared rules for everyone outside the current state of the alien invasion. Certainly no shared mechanics. One player will make something another player needs, and they hand it over to them, because they cannot make it themselves.

I haven't read the rulebook or played with less than 4 players, but I can't see how it'd work with 2-3 unless someone was pulling double duty.

Edit: Apparently XCOM is also Eric M. Lang. Surprise!
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