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David Fenton
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For Soporific Spores, the Goblin player chooses which Tribe loses population. Does Hiss work the same way (with the Goblin chooses which Revealed Tribe goes into hiding), or does the Dragon choose?

Having the Dragon choose feels like it would be a bit abusive in Goblin vs Dragon games, since any time a Tribe looks like it has sufficient Strength the Dragon can send it home (the population loss isn't a huge concern, but the lost turn would be). If the Claw Gem is hidden safely behind walls (where the Goblins can't get to it (since they have no way over walls), only one Claw card is required.

I'll admit I haven't tried a Goblin/Dragon game, but isn't is conceivable that a Dragon could simply build itself a walled room (that Goblins can't get to easily), and work away cubes via the Pride not-moving method (and Slither to move cubes into that space)? Goblins don't get to orient walls and can't pass through them unless they have Golem or Underworm (which may be discarded after attacking), or the Cave-In Secret. If they saw a Tribe appear with one of these two monsters, they could Hiss it away (to make it safe for a turn or so).

Am I missing something that makes this impractical? In my last Knight v Goblin v Cave game, several Goblin inaccessible areas were created using Flare (the first revealed tiles were isolated, and as such it wasn't possible to connect to the entrance, Knight hopped a wall over them and connected future tiles to that one as she entered them, eventually resulting in closed off areas). I imagine the Dragon Flame/Burn could give similar results.
 
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Peter Rabinowitz
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The Goblin could place dark tiles, both through exploring and the end of turn tile, to create pathways around walls.

But frankly, I'm having a hard time visualizing how the map layout you describe could happen. The Knight can't move through dark tiles and every lit tile needs to be surrounded on open sides by dark tiles and Goblins CAN move through dark tiles. It should only take a tile or two to make a dark path around the wall. Did you forget to fill in all the open sides of a lit tile with dark tiles?
 
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David Fenton
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kc2dpt wrote:
But frankly, I'm having a hard time visualizing how the map layout you describe could happen. The Knight can't move through dark tiles and every lit tile needs to be surrounded on open sides by dark tiles and Goblins CAN move through dark tiles. It should only take a tile or two to make a dark path around the wall. Did you forget to fill in all the open sides of a lit tile with dark tiles?


In some games, the Knight gets Flare, which can reveal any tiles on the map (whether or not their connected to the main cave). For the specific case in the Knight v Goblin v Cave game, at one point Flare revealed diagonal tiles (which could not be connected to the Entrance, so could be arranged in any way). With a 90-angle tile, Knight opted to place the open edges facing away from her (and the entrance), then Ancient Mapped through a wall into that tile. Another Flare revealed all surrounding tiles, which also ended up being 90-angles/dead-end tiles and were oriented to enclose the area. The Knight doesn't have much reason to do this, but Flare and Flame have the same results (hence feeling it could happen).

In the Dragon v Goblin game, neither side needs lit tiles to move, so you can end up with large amounts of dark tiles in a cluster. You could create a 2x2 grid of 90-degree angle tiles, with all tiles facing inward (so you have a 2x2 grid with walls on all sides). Or finding long corridors of tiles with two walls (such that Goblins would lose most their population making it through).

I'm not saying it happens often, but with random tiles placement and a high number of 2-wall tiles, it's not impossible.

Other cases that can block the Goblins are revealing a 90-angle tile on a corner and positioning it with the walls outward. The Goblins must place 3-5 Dark tiles to get around it. Uncovering a few tiles with walls and placing the walls on the same side of the path does the same thing (it's not hard to find 4-5 x 2-wall tiles in a row, which leads to a long section with no Dark tiles around them.

Patrick/Kyle have stated that they've experienced a complete/walled cave with something like 5 tiles, so enclosed areas like this can happen.

We were also playing such that when Flare revealed tiles, even if a Revealed tile was adjacent to a Lit tile, if that Lit tile could not be connected to the Entrance, the revealed tile didn't need to be connected to it (rules say you must connect tiles to the Entrance if possible, not to existing Lit tiles).
 
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Kyle
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dsdhornet wrote:
For Soporific Spores, the Goblin player chooses which Tribe loses population. Does Hiss work the same way (with the Goblin chooses which Revealed Tribe goes into hiding), or does the Dragon choose?
The Dragon can choose the tribe.

Quote:
Am I missing something that makes this impractical?

Creating closed-off pockets with Flame, Scorch, Burn, or Flare isn't uncommon, and can be a good short-term way to get some heat off your back.

HOWEVER...
Goblins can still get in there using Golem, Underworm, or by causing Cave-ins to darken one or more of the walls that have been put up. When (not if) they get in, you can be certain they'll be running right past any gems piled up inside to go directly for the Dragon.

------------------

Hiss can (and sometimes should) be used to get rid of the most threatening Tribes.

HOWEVER...
Each time you do it requires a pair of Claw symbols, and there are three tribes that will be constantly popping back up. Even with a Claw gem tucked away, you're not going to be getting enough claw cards every turn to keep all of them down. When the Goblins get their hands on Hex, you might not have *any* claw cards to work with.

Plus, every time you hiss at a tribe, their Rage goes up. Goblins want to be angry, and the more rage they have the more control they have over their war cards. That gives them more control over growth and how many monsters and secrets they get, which gets them to the cards they want that much more quickly.

--------------

As for camping out and using Slither to keep sliding cubes over to the "Don't Move" spot, time is not your friend. That has to be the slowest way to clear sloth possible, short of not clearing any at all...
 
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David Fenton
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Woelf wrote:
As for camping out and using Slither to keep sliding cubes over to the "Don't Move" spot, time is not your friend. That has to be the slowest way to clear sloth possible, short of not clearing any at all...
I guess I was thinking that in a DvG game, while blocking yourself in leads to a slower win, you can gain a cube almost every turn by not moving, and try to use Hiss on any tribe that shows up with the Golem/Underworm (delaying them a turn while they re-Reveal and gaining Goblins to eat). With all Gems placed, it's unlikely that the Dragon won't be able to use either Hiss or Slither in a turn (since you only need one matching card) to either move a cube to the "don't move space" or eat a Goblin with Hiss. Since discarded Monsters aren't shuffled until all monster have been drawn/discarded, it's not every turn that they'll reappear once used. Without a Cave player, collapse isn't as big a concern.

You're right that Cave-In would put a damper on those plans, and the right combination of Monsters and Secrets can get through, but it'd likely give the Dragon at least a few free turns to power up and gain an advantage. I'll have to give it a shot in my next game and see.
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