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Subject: Rationing + Bomber Command = Overpowered ? rss

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Spyros
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Recently I have heard both opinions:
1) There are people who say that Rationing + Bomber command (or even Rationing merely on its own) is overpowered and they ask for an update of rules or a variation.
2) There are people who strongly oppose the first opinion.

Do you think that recursion of cards in QMG is too-much of a thing? In Alternate Histories Flexible Resources was substituted but Rationing was not. What's your experience/opinion on surviving a game where Bomber Command is played multiple times against you? Do you think Rationing is not as strong as some people think?

Food for thought; interesting things we can discuss

Poll
Is Rationing + Bomber Command = overpowered?
It is overpowered and I would wish for a variation such as substituting the Rationing Card.
Is is very strong combo and I would wish for a variation such as that Bomber Command cannot be rationed.
Is is a good combo but definitely not overpowered.
Playing Rationing + Bomber Command multiple times is not a good strategy, let alone overpowered.
      15 answers
Poll created by Spyros_UCL



Please note: I created this thread due to discussions which arose from a similar thread which was meant to explain how to fix a non-desired glitch of Shuffling on Rationing so that after the fix Rationing, Rosie the Riveter (etc) work the way they were designed to work (regardless of whether the cards are considered to be over-powered or not) in order to retain a fair play-balance.

In this thread we discuss the degree to which Rationing+Bomber command is considered over-powered (or not), regardless of the effects of shuffling on Rationing (i.e. even after the application of the fix of the glitch).
Please go to the other thread if you want to discuss the not-meant-to-exist side effects of Shuffling on Rationing.
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Peter Bakija
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Spyros_UCL wrote:
Recently I have heard both opinions:
1) There are people who say that Rationing + Bomber command (or even Rationing merely on its own) is overpowered and they ask for an update of rules or a variation.
2) There are people who strongly oppose the first opinion.


Recursion in this game is a problem.

Because of recursion (Rationing, non event Flexible Resources), it is virtually impossible for the Axis to win a game that goes to 20 turns. Like, I realize that some folks are totally ok with the the idea that if the game is to be won by the Axis, it needs to be won by +30 points mid game. That strikes me as problematic--the Allies can win by +30 points mid game. The Allies can win by making it to T20 and having a lead. The Axis can, generally speaking, only win by +30 points mid game. As if the game goes to T20, the Allies will win by virtue (generally speaking) of some sort of recursive bombing card.

I don't know that this is a pleasing end result
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Mike Anastasia
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There's no option for my opinion, so I'll just write it here:

It's a very strong combo and probably overpowered but I have no desire to change it.
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Jeff Johnson
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I can think of one Axis tactic to stop it, or slow it down: the Axis should hang on to a few of their economic warfare cards until the British player decks himself. Then they can empty the British hand fairly quickly.

I haven't tried this in a game yet, though.

The biggest problem is that they'd also have to hold onto Western Europe, or another space next to the North Sea (which they need for most of the German EW cards) late in the game. But often they're going to lose anyhow if they lose Western Europe for any length of time.
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Spyros
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Oakfed wrote:
I can think of one Axis tactic to stop it, or slow it down: the Axis should hang on to a few of their economic warfare cards until the British player decks himself. Then they can empty the British hand fairly quickly.


Yeah

Italy can also play the Bolster card that allowed them to remove a plane to not be hit by economic warfare. They can also play the response which protects them once.

Germany can also play the Status that they discard fewer cards when economic warfare is played against them.

Of course during the last rounds USA can also use their economic warfare cards whilst the UK uses their turns to play Rationing + Bomber Command.
 
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Peter Bakija
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Oakfed wrote:
I can think of one Axis tactic to stop it, or slow it down: the Axis should hang on to a few of their economic warfare cards until the British player decks himself. Then they can empty the British hand fairly quickly.


It is really hard to pull that off, given that you need to memorize where in the deck the cards you want to mill off are, and really, you need to have the German UK Submarine cards to pull it off. Like, it is possible. But rough. I've never seen it actually happen.
 
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Peter Bakija
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MyNameIsFourteen wrote:
There's no option for my opinion, so I'll just write it here:

It's a very strong combo and probably overpowered but I have no desire to change it.


This is pretty much where I stand as well. Like, it is probably overpowered. I don't know that there is a good way to fix it. Making Flexible Resources a single use event was a great idea, and we use it here all the time like that, even without Alternate Histories in play. I don;t know that there is a clean, easy way to fix Bomber Command/Rationing, however.
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Witch Lord
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MyNameIsFourteen wrote:
There's no option for my opinion, so I'll just write it here:

It's a very strong combo and probably overpowered but I have no desire to change it.


THIS thumbsup
 
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Witch Lord
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Oakfed wrote:
I can think of one Axis tactic to stop it, or slow it down: the Axis should hang on to a few of their economic warfare cards until the British player decks himself. Then they can empty the British hand fairly quickly.

I haven't tried this in a game yet, though.

The biggest problem is that they'd also have to hold onto Western Europe, or another space next to the North Sea (which they need for most of the German EW cards) late in the game. But often they're going to lose anyhow if they lose Western Europe for any length of time.


I have done it a couple of times... with Japan. Just hold onto that Submarines vs the UK card
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James Hamilton
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I think that the fix for rationing could be to not allow the use of the card once your draw deck is empty.

Not sure how you word that.

The issue is the putting Bomber Command into an empty draw deck, discarding a card from hand and then picking Bomber Command back up.

It is even worse if the only card in the British hand is Bomber Command and they "discard" a victory point instead of a card.
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Ian Brody
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Hammy wrote:

It is even worse if the only card in the British hand is Bomber Command and they "discard" a victory point instead of a card.


This you can't do. When Bomber Command is your last card, you can't play it again.
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Spyros
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Hammy wrote:

It is even worse if the only card in the British hand is Bomber Command and they "discard" a victory point instead of a card.


IanBrody wrote:


This you can't do. When Bomber Command is your last card, you can't play it again.


A link where it is explained in detail (by Ian):

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1553810/rationing-1-card-ha...
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James Hamilton
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IanBrody wrote:
Hammy wrote:

It is even worse if the only card in the British hand is Bomber Command and they "discard" a victory point instead of a card.


This you can't do. When Bomber Command is your last card, you can't play it again.

OK, that at least is something.

You can still use it 8 times in a row if you get it right though.

If you have 1 card in your deck and 7 including Bomber Command in your hand then you play Bomber Command, discard something else, pick up 2 cards and now you have 7 cards including BC in your hand.
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