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Space Empires: 4X» Forums » General

Subject: Has anybody played SE4X integrated w/ Talon? rss

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K S
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So I recently learned that SE4X and Talon are both well-reviewed games that can also integrate with each other so that the Talon game system is used to resolves combat in SE4X. Has anybody on here actually tried this? If so, how fun was it? I imagine it must make games really long? Were the official integration rules good, or did you need to make house rules? Did you play out every battle or just particular ones and if so, how did you decide which ones to play out? I haven't actually played SE4X, so I don't know how frequent combat is; is combat likely to occur every turn?
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Niko
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I don't think anybody has posted any reports about it, but the same question is being discussed in the Talon forums in this thread: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1546542/anyone-tried-integr...

EDIT: As for how often combat is in Space Empires: Not so much in the beginning, but in mid and late game it can be very frequent. Not quite every turn, but an entire econ phase (3 movement phases per player) without combat tends to be rare towards the end in my experience.
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K S
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Thanks for the link, Niko! In real-time terms, how long does an econ phase tend to last? Are we talking like 10 minutes of SE4X before jumping back into Talon?
 
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Niko
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wamsp wrote:
Thanks for the link, Niko! In real-time terms, how long does an econ phase tend to last? Are we talking like 10 minutes of SE4X before jumping back into Talon?
I haven't tried combining the games myself and can't really speak to exact times.

The length of an econ round varies, early game they are quick (especially when done simultaneous) since it's just moving ~8 ships one hex each and flipping the counters of the systems they explored each movement phase. Early econ phases are also quick since you don't have too much money and generally don't have to react much to your opponent yet.
I'd say an econ phase lasts between 5 and 10 minutes until contact with an opponent becomes likely.

Later on when players need to think about their moves more and physically move more counters around you might spent a few minutes per movement phase.
Econ phases will also take more time since you have more money, but it's still never enough and you need to agonize over how to allocate it; keeping in mind not only what your opponent has done so far, but also what they will do next.

I'd definitely expect to spent more time playing Talon than Space Empires. As quick as the Talon battles are each battle will still take substantially longer than the movement and econ phases.
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Dene M
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I've bought both games with the intention to play them together. One game of Talon in so far, when we get through the official scenarios we plan to do the combined game.

There were some things in the rules that were unclear to me. I've made updated SE4X back-of-book reference sheets and production pads, here: https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/137247/se4x-talon-referen...

Edit: More thoughts – I'm interested to see how the SE4X "power curve" affects the balance of late-game battles in Talon. Carriers only having access to Defense 1 tech, for example, may become more vulnerable to Talon BBs/DNs? But then maybe it balances out because CVs/FTRs are a natural counter to the fusion cannon ships, and the non-fusion armed talon ships get weakened compared to FTRs. I think picking which ships to build will get very interesting .
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Dene M
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To those who have played the combined game, or at least to those who are familiar with Talon:

What would you think about giving the Light Cruisers the option to take the Cloaking Tech, rather than Destroyers?

I got to thinking about it after reading the Fast BCs rules, which were justified by needing to give BCs a special ability like SCs (Point Defense), DDs (Scanning), and CAs (Exploration). In the official combined-game rules, CLs have no special ability. CLs also have the same hull rating as Raiders in the standalone game, and the same position in combat ability (in between DDs and CAs).

I can see that CLs have more of an edge in combat over DDs in the combined game, compared to Raiders over DDs in standalone. But DDs are also relatively cheaper in the combined game, so there can be more of them to move around in patrol.

Personally, I like the idea, and I think I will try it. I can't decide whether the tech should cost +2 or +3 CPs, making the 13CP CL into a 15 or 16 CP cloaked CL, compared to the 8/7CP DD and the 17CP CA.

P.S. If I was being sensible, I would play the standalone SE4X game before going for Talon integration. But I am not being sensible.
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