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Guilds of London» Forums » Rules

Subject: Moving the Master pawns (ie. what's up with cards 98 & 102)? rss

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Jarmo Niinisalo
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All right. In the English manual the icon displayed alongside the description of the "Move a Liveryman" action (page 6, Player Turns, section B) is the same as the one on the next page "Common Icons" list, where it's described as a "move pawn icon". Now, the rules for "Moving a Liveryman" action (B) state that by using said action, the player can (among other things) move one master pawn of his/her color from any guild to any other unresolved guild that matches the suit of the card.

So, does the shared iconography here imply that I can also move one of my own Masters in the same way by using the special ability of the cards that share the same icon (76, 78, 79, 96, 97 etc.)? And, if all of the aforementioned is correct, why do cards 98 & 102 specifically make a clear symbolic difference between moving a regular pawn and moving a master? Aren't the robed "move pawn" icons completely unnecessary? As far as I understand from the rest of the manual, there isn't a difference as far as moving regular pawns and masters goes. Those two cards are really throwing me for a loop here...

So, I guess what I'm really asking here is, can my Masters be moved with all cards that allow the "move pawn" action?

Also (going on a tangent here), can I move my enemies' Masters with cards 78 & 79?

---

Oh yeah, and I'm also curious about whether unsuited special tiles count towards "not sharing suites" checks for cards like 49-51, or are they completely out of consideration for such checks (Lord Mayor's Parade tile excluded)? For example, does one controlled green guild tile and University of London tile qualify for two tiles not sharing a suit?
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Chris Clarke
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I'd love to get an answer to this...
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Chris Clarke
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It's also strange that all movement rewards on the tiles share 98/102's master/liveryman graphic that indicates you can move either...

 
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Dean Connorton
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On a separate rules forum, Tony mentioned that in a 2 player game where the purple card is used to move the Beadle and resolve the tile at the end of the round is not written as was intended. He meant that it should resolve at the end of the next Resolve Tiles phase (every even numbered round). The way that the rules are written implies that the tile could/would resolve even at the end of an odd numbered round. He has said to use the rules as written, but players can go either way. The point is that what was meant may not be what we find in the rules.

On to your question, it's my belief that the icons are meant to be more literal and override the general rule that you're mentioning on page 6. This would be similar to where in a rule book it's often mentioned that if a card/special ability breaks the rules of the normal game, then the card breaks the rules when played. In this way, the iconography is more important and explains why sometimes pawns are shown and other times Masters are shown with Liverymen separated by a slash.

- I don't believe that you can move Masters with all cards (C - Use a special ability) that have the "move pawn" action unless the Master icon is explicitly shown. I do think that when discarding a single card to move a single pawn to an unresolved tile (B - Move a Liveryman) that you can move either a your Liveryman or your Master (as stated on page 6).
- I would think that if the icon is a robed multi-color pawn then yes, otherwise no.
- Tony did respond at one point to you last question which is that Special Building Tiles are not Guilds. The only exception being the Parade which has it's suite determined upon resolution by the player with the Master on this tile. The other Special Building Tiles do not count towards "not sharing suites".
 
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Chris Clarke
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Drag0nBa11Z wrote:
On to your question, it's my belief that the icons are meant to be more literal and override the general rule that you're mentioning on page 6. This would be similar to where in a rule book it's often mentioned that if a card/special ability breaks the rules of the normal game, then the card breaks the rules when played. In this way, the iconography is more important and explains why sometimes pawns are shown and other times Masters are shown with Liverymen separated by a slash.

- I don't believe that you can move Masters with all cards (C - Use a special ability) that have the "move pawn" action unless the Master icon is explicitly shown. I do think that when discarding a single card to move a single pawn to an unresolved tile (B - Move a Liveryman) that you can move either a your Liveryman or your Master (as stated on page 6).


Agreed. I think when you use a card to move a meeple, you can move any meeple to any unresolved guild or special building. And at any other time, White Meeple = Liveryman, Robed Meeple = Master, both exclusive. It makes the most sense.

It's just unusual to have such a strong statement about THIS is what "this" means, and then nothing at all about how the cards and tiles override this rule. Honestly, it never needed to be defined in such a way.

Would love to hear from Tony on this. Just curious.
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Kolby Reddish
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Agreed. I'm also confused if movements taken through "special actions" have to be to a tile that matches the suit.
 
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Nicola Bocchetta
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I would add that with cards 78-79, it's not clear if you can move an opponent player master out of a resolved guild.
 
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Jake Waltier
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Tony says in this thread that you can always move a master when you can move your liverymen.
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1596137/rosetta-stone
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Jimmy Hensel
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Faso74it wrote:
I would add that with cards 78-79, it's not clear if you can move an opponent player master out of a resolved guild.


I believe a main premise of the game is that once you gain control of a tile, you retain that control until you voluntarily relinquish such control by freely choosing to move your master off that tile. Consequently, I think that the intent of cards 78, 79 and 84 is that the action is limited to liverymen pawns and NOT masters. Otherwise, these cards could be better than neutral liverymen.
 
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