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Firefly: The Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Kill 1 crew: the leader? rss

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Jamie Specht
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Can you choose the leader to "kill" when it says to kill a crew member. I thought I saw "no" (they have to be last chosen) but asked by others and can't find it to show them.
 
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Jay Johnson
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there is nothing that says you cannot do that.
if the leader doesn't already have a disgruntled token, he or she picks one up. If the leader already has a disgruntled token, they pick up a second, and fire the whole crew (return their cards to the discard piles of their respective supply planets) and both disgruntled tokens are removed.
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Bob
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Per the FAQs:

"Yes, your Leader can take one for the team. When your Leader would be killed, return them to your ship and Disgruntle them (“Leaders are REALLY Lucky”, pg. 10)"

"...after firing all their Crew, the Leader should be clear of Disgruntled Tokens. Firing everyone improves their mood dramatically."

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Jamie Specht
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Ashitaka wrote:
Per the FAQs:

"Yes, your Leader can take one for the team. When your Leader would be killed, return them to your ship and Disgruntle them (“Leaders are REALLY Lucky”, pg. 10)"

"...after firing all their Crew, the Leader should be clear of Disgruntled Tokens. Firing everyone improves their mood dramatically."



Weird. Sounds like the only time killing matters then is either if there is more than one kill or when your leader is disgruntled. That's weird.
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Mark McG
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OutOfHabit wrote:


Weird. Sounds like the only time killing matters then is either if there is more than one kill or when your leader is disgruntled. That's weird.


It is one of the few faults with the game IMHO, and getting rid of it would add significant tension and PvP options to the game.

 
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Matthew Scott
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Quote:
Minedog3 wrote:
[q="OutOfHabit"]

Weird. Sounds like the only time killing matters then is either if there is more than one kill or when your leader is disgruntled. That's weird.


It is one of the few faults with the game IMHO, and getting rid of it would add significant tension and PvP options to the game.


Having a leader with a disgruntled token is a risky preposition. If it isn't resolved right away then you might lose your whole crew.

I try to have one or two cannon fodder crew, I would rather they went than my leader being disgruntled; unless I planned to do shore leave the next turn or had a companion on board.
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richard spangle
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There are many times where having a Disgruntled Leader can be a disadvantage, with unexpected complications coming up both in Nav and Misbehave decks, so you must be careful.

thematically, think of Mal is Out Of Gas, where he almost went someplace (and it wouldn't have been the "special" hell). somehow Leaders have a knack for just staying alive, that's why their names come up first in the credits
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Mark McG
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I think the issue here is the leaders are used as a shield against other characters being killed. So leaders should be the last to be killed.
 
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Jay Johnson
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MontyMooMan wrote:
I try to have one or two cannon fodder crew, I would rather they went than my leader being disgruntled; unless I planned to do shore leave the next turn or had a companion on board.

How does having a Companion on board help in that situation?
Emma, Helen, and Lucy have the "Morale Booster" ability that can help, but they aren't Companions.
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Jay Johnson
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Minedog3 wrote:
I think the issue here is the leaders are used as a shield against other characters being killed. So leaders should be the last to be killed.

I suppose you could house-rule that if you wanted (and your game group agreed to it).

Thematically, Mal would definitely take a bullet to save a member of his Crew. Womack? no way.
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Jamie Specht
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JayJ79 wrote:
Minedog3 wrote:
I think the issue here is the leaders are used as a shield against other characters being killed. So leaders should be the last to be killed.

I suppose you could house-rule that if you wanted (and your game group agreed to it).

Thematically, Mal would definitely take a bullet to save a member of his Crew. Womack? no way.


Yeah but what it means then is that "kill a crew" isn't actually all THAT bad. Sure there is a consequence but it cheapens medic checks and makes the whole consequence much smaller than if you actually were to lose a crew from that.
I took the rule to be there so that there never is a situation where you are left crewless: you'll always have the leader!
 
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Carl Bussema
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Having a disgruntled moral leader is really bad, as you may need to go do shore leave earlier than you would like, or else plan on firing everyone after that next immoral job...
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Dave C
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OutOfHabit wrote:
JayJ79 wrote:
Minedog3 wrote:
I think the issue here is the leaders are used as a shield against other characters being killed. So leaders should be the last to be killed.

I suppose you could house-rule that if you wanted (and your game group agreed to it).

Thematically, Mal would definitely take a bullet to save a member of his Crew. Womack? no way.


Yeah but what it means then is that "kill a crew" isn't actually all THAT bad. Sure there is a consequence but it cheapens medic checks and makes the whole consequence much smaller than if you actually were to lose a crew from that.
I took the rule to be there so that there never is a situation where you are left crewless: you'll always have the leader!


Recently while playing the game, a friend of mine chose to disgruntle his captain instead of killing a crew. On the very next turn, before he had a chance to shore leave, he had to disgruntle his captain again and then had to fire his entire crew. Prior to this happening, my friend was clearly in the lead and would have almost certainly won. However, the final goal token of the story card we were playing required a few misbehaves, and there was no way he could attempt them with only a captain. And while he tried to reassemble enough of a crew to make an attempt, someone else flew through the goals and got the win.

Having a disgruntled token on my friend's captain flat-out cost him the game, so I would never claim that it makes "the whole consequence much smaller than if you actually lose a crew".

Firefly effectively boils down to a series of decisions which involve trade-off of various risks: Do you start on jobs early, full-burning it through space without a pilot and mechanic? You get a potential head start on the other players, but risk a Reaver encounter without the ability to Crazy Ivan. Do you load up your crew with Mercs because it's faster/cheaper than other options? You get yourself some quick stats relative to players being a little more selective, but could be in trouble if you turn over 'An Interesting Day'.

Disgruntling your captain is no different... it saves you from losing one crew, but at the risk of losing all your crew. You may decide that a second disgruntled is highly unlikely, and therefore disgruntling your captain is a small price to pay... Sometimes you'll be right about that, and sometimes that decision could cost you the game. So from a gameplay mechanics perspective, disgruntling your captain fits perfectly within the system of risk trade-off decisions you have to make. (And thematically, while your captain may be willing to take a bullet or two for his/her crew, having to do so too often would likely result in a decision that he/she is better off without them.)
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John Coxon
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I agree having a disgruntled leader is pretty risky. Someone with Sash's Hand Cannon and the right piracy or bounty card could wipe your your entire crew too.
 
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Jack F
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A couple of other points that no one seems to have noted in this thread (it's been noted elsewhere):
1) Killing or Disgruntling your Leader is much more risky if they're Moral. There are several Nav and a few Misbehave cards that will risk them picking up another Disgruntled token.
2) If you 'kill' your Leader in a work action, even though he's not dead, he still has to go back to the ship and is out for any further Misbehaves. That's 3 skill points lost, a few keywords and whatever Gear they were carrying.
 
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Matthew Scott
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JayJ79 wrote:
MontyMooMan wrote:
I try to have one or two cannon fodder crew, I would rather they went than my leader being disgruntled; unless I planned to do shore leave the next turn or had a companion on board.

How does having a Companion on board help in that situation?
Emma, Helen, and Lucy have the "Morale Booster" ability that can help, but they aren't Companions.


Quite right, moral booster is what I was thinking of.
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Jamie Specht
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Moshuku wrote:
A couple of other points that no one seems to have noted in this thread (it's been noted elsewhere):
1) Killing or Disgruntling your Leader is much more risky if they're Moral. There are several Nav and a few Misbehave cards that will risk them picking up another Disgruntled token.
2) If you 'kill' your Leader in a work action, even though he's not dead, he still has to go back to the ship and is out for any further Misbehaves. That's 3 skill points lost, a few keywords and whatever Gear they were carrying.


Your point 1 is pretty much what I keep thinking about.
And for your point 2, at least they are there for the next attempt then.

I'm pretty sure my group will house rule this because it feels too cheap to take the disgruntle your leader option. I have read all the reasons posted here as to why it is actually a penalty and I'm not saying it lacks impact. Just that the impact is not as strong as losing a different member (and their gear? I always forget). The game is long enough that taking an extra shore leave action is almost never a problem.
 
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George Krubski
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I just prefer to play a leader unencumbered by pesky morals.
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Jay Johnson
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You could also houserule to make it so that if you run into the Reavers, you roll a die and if you roll anything other than a 6, your whole crew dies (or ends up so mentally traumatized that they start to act like Reavers themselves) and you lose the game.
(you know, to make it more realistic)
 
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