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A Game of Thrones: The Card Game (Second Edition)» Forums » Variants

Subject: Seventh Title Card for Melee rss

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Mike Smith
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My experiences of Melee seemed to suggest that there was a tendency for the strong to feed off the weak, admittedly thematic enough, but not terribly much fun for the weak.

Suggestion:
Have a 7th Title called something like The Redresser, or Righter of Wrongs, or The Champion (someone that knows the books better than I might be able to suggest a name that directly fits from the source material).

Rivals: player with most power at the start of each challenge (tie: all of them).
Supports: player with least power at the start of each challenge (tie: all of them).

Crown Regent may not redirect a challenge by this Title holder (Edit) provided the challenge is made against a rival of this Title.
This Title contributes +1 STR to its bearer's total during any challenge against a Rival.


If playing with this then one more Title would be removed from the pool in the Plot Phase than normal.

Any comments would be welcome. If I am way off beam here, then please tell me why. Any suggestions for tweaking it would also be welcome.

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Brian Lelas
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Like the thought process here and what you're trying to achieve but there are a lot of balance issues with this concept.

First problem you have is people won't challenge as much if they know they can take that card and "catch up" with rival power against multiple opponents. Why make one challenge this turn to go ahead in power if you can hold off and get rival power = number of opponents next round?

Houses like Martell and Night's Watch will clean up with this ability too. They thrive on being "last" for the duration and swinging things in their favour dramatically towards the end.

Also, you're relying on the player with the least power drawing the new card. What happens if someone other than that player (or the strongest player even) picks it? What happens then?
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Mike Smith
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If the strongest player takes it then that is fine. Its an act of denial that does not advance their agenda in other ways - though it does encourage them to attack someone who is equally strong in power. However I think a tweak is in order so that it only really rewards those who are using it to redress the balance:

It should only prevent a redirect by the Regent if the challenge is going in against a Rival to the Title.

Balance issues certainly, but perhaps less than those introduced by certain new key cards from a chapter pack or Deluxe expansion! Agree that it helps Martell and Night's Watch. Martell don't need the help, but it won't harm Night's Watch.
 
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Brian Lelas
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Yeah, maybe. I like that you are trying to bring in a catch-up mechanism but maybe there is another way?

Also, consider this: Enabling the player in dead last the chance to claim more power just gives the other players a bank of power to take from them with Power challenges.

I think a much more effective form of catch-up would be to allow players in last place to get extra gold or draw more cards, that way they can take control of their fate more steadily by getting characters out to soak up claim or block unopposed challenges.

Again, balancing that will be tough. Remember, in competitive play, the player closest to winning is the winner, not the one with the most power. Often there are games where one player has 12+ power and an opponent has much less that the one with less is clearly, visibly miles ahead with board presence.

Would love it if more people got involved in this discussion, as there is a lot of design space in this. Maybe check the FFG forums for similar posts? There might be some further insight to it.
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Mike Smith
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I did not primarily see it as a catch-up mechanism, though it clearly is one. As the initial post indicates, the main reason for suggesting it was to take some heat off the player in last place, and encourage a player in 2nd or 3rd place to try to take power from the player in 1st instead of generating it by doing the last player down even further.

I agree that current power levels do not tell the whole story about who is "leading". I suppose the alternative would be to base it on current total strength, but that is harder to count up because of character interactions and situational bonuses/debits.

Its great that you want to discuss rather than dismiss the idea out of hand! Much appreciated.
 
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Mike Smith
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My suggested Title does not give any new power to the last player, so it is not creating a fund of power to feed the others. It potentially gives the last player an extra supporter and encourages that supporter to hit the leader. So it might help prevent the loss of more power by the person in last and allow them breathing space to build their board position. If the person in first takes the Title then they can't hit the player in last.

The variant disincentivises going ahead on power, and encourages winning in one swoop from behind. Not a bad thing necessarily.

The most serious objection to this variant is that it rewards Martell too much with their hang back strategy. Not sure what to do about that.
 
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Brian Lelas
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Yes, I see what you mean. I still think my points are valid, but maybe there is a way around it without getting convoluted or confusing. Perhaps some kind of cost reduction on characters/locations rather than giving out gold is a nice way of making the "last place" player stronger without giving them gold they can use for events and/or Dominance.

But again, that Martell/Night's Watch conundrum rings its head again.

I will think more about this one and see if I can figure it out. If you think of anythign else, let me know here and maybe together we can come up with a solid variant melee title deck or something.
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