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Or do scenarios have randomized elements each time?
 
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DarkFlame92 wrote:
Or do scenarios have randomized elements each time?


The overall story remains constant, but you might encounter different room layout, different monsters, pickup different items, ect.

Once you play through a story successfully, you'll know what to expect the second time through. I've played through the first scenario 4x. I've had fun even though I knew what to expect. YMMV however.
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Jordan S.
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There is certainly some replayability to the scenarios. In my experience, your first few repeat plays with feel about 50% familiar and 50% new.

The central story will remain the same but the placement of things may change and some events may be different. For example, in the first scenario, one play had us looking for a key to unlock a door, the second play had us looking for a hidden switch, and in the third play the enemies came bursting through the door before we could figure out how to open it.

Even on the third play of a scenario, there were some pretty big surprises still to be had. I imagine each scenario will start to feel pretty same-y after the 5th or 6th play, but even if that's the case, you're still talking at least 20 plays out-of-the box...and some of those scenarios will be many hours long.

Also, even if you don't own any 1st edition stuff, I recommend activating them in the app and using the included conversion kit. It gives you more investigators and more monsters to add additional variety. There's a thread which speaks in detail about how you can include the conversion kit in your games, even if you don't own the previous edition content and I can vouch for it.
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Webhead123 wrote:
Also, even if you don't own any 1st edition stuff, I recommend activating them in the app and using the included conversion kit. It gives you more investigators and more monsters to add additional variety. There's a thread which speaks in detail about how you can include the conversion kit in your games, even if you don't own the previous edition content and I can vouch for it.


How are you proxying the 1e tiles?
 
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Mistermannindy wrote:
How are you proxying the 1e tiles?

The guy who did the testing found that only 2 of the scenarios (I forget which 2) make use of the 1e tiles and, if a session is going to use them, you'll always know because one or more will be included in the initial tiles revealed during set-up. If you don't have the 1e tiles and one gets dealt at set-up, simply end the scenario and restart it until you get a set-up that includes only 2e tiles. If there were no 1e tiles dealt at set-up, there will never be any dealt later in the scenario.
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Webhead123 wrote:
Mistermannindy wrote:
How are you proxying the 1e tiles?

The guy who did the testing found that only 2 of the scenarios (I forget which 2) make use of the 1e tiles and, if a session is going to use them, you'll always know because one or more will be included in the initial tiles revealed during set-up. If you don't have the 1e tiles and one gets dealt at set-up, simply end the scenario and restart it until you get a set-up that includes only 2e tiles. If there were no 1e tiles dealt at set-up, there will never be any dealt later in the scenario.


thx a lot for explaining.

You made the game look much more interesting to me.
 
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Mistermannindy wrote:
DarkFlame92 wrote:
Or do scenarios have randomized elements each time?


The overall story remains constant, but you might encounter different room layout, different monsters, pickup different items, ect.

Once you play through a story successfully, you'll know what to expect the second time through. I've played through the first scenario 4x. I've had fun even though I knew what to expect. YMMV however.


I'll also add to this that you probably won't win all 4 scenarios on your first try and that some of the scenarios have multiple endings. There are at least two different "win" endings for the first scenario and a few for the third scenario based on how fast you complete the investigation and how well you do overall (not going to spoil what that entails). There is also a scenario that includes an entire three day investigation, involving talking to town folks and trying to find the culprits. Who those culprits are is different each time.

So on-top of the randomization of items, tiles, and monsters, there is plenty of incentive to play again and have it feel fresh.

And even if I've experienced a story before, I like going through the game with new players and introducing my friends to the game, getting to play as different investigators. I think there is a lot of game here, even without the 1st Ed tiles.
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I think the important thing to understand is that although the scenarios have some replayability, and indeed will probably take 2 or 3 plays to 'beat' a given scenario, the game experience changes with replays.

The first play of a scenario is an immersive mystery with a new story, surprising events etc... so in tone somewhat akin to a roleplaying game atmosphere.

With each replay each scenario becomes more mechanical. There will be less and less surprising elements, you will know your objectives and possibly the map layout from the start, you will know the unique scenario mechanics. Essentially, it becomes less of a an immersive story and more of a strategic game: how can we most efficiently do what we need to do to successfully complete the objectives. It's still enjoyable, for me at least, but you will only get that RPG-like experience form the 1st play of any given scenario.

Ultimately the mileage in each scenario depends on the group or the individual playing. Some will not want to play again after 'beating' a scenario as by then the mystery is gone, there are very few surprises, and no challenge... but others may just have so much fun with the basic mechanics and playing with their friends they still enjoying replaying it. It ultimately depends on you. One thing I think everyone with even a degree of impartiality will acknowledge is that although 'mileage may vary' the scenarios are not endlessly replayable and do have a shelf life... with the same group at least.

Difficulty depends somewhat on how your group plays (do you like to make optimal decisions or 'roleplay' it more? Do the players play strongly to fulfill insanity conditions or do you play to win as a group and hang that?) but I think 3 or 4 plays of the harder scenarios is a reasonable 'par' for completing the investigation. For the easier ones I would say 2 games max to complete the investigation.

BTW, here is the thread mentioned above about using the conversion kit without the 1st edition components: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1636024/base-game-totally-pl...
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Dean L
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If you want a different story each time then sure it's just 4 scenarios. But this isn't like Time Stories where you can "solve" each scenario and playing again is literally pointless.

It's more like replaying an Imperial Assault or Descent campaign - you'll have the same plot but monsters will differ and you can take different heroes/investigators, and the app will throw some different events at you (and some will be the same).
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Im still fighting my way through the 2nd scenario... pretty sure I know everything I need to know, but I just can't get it all done.

So it is still fun to try and "beat"
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dlikos wrote:
Im still fighting my way through the 2nd scenario... pretty sure I know everything I need to know, but I just can't get it all done.

So it is still fun to try and "beat"


But once you beat it will you want to play again? We didn't. The game only has replayability (with diminishing freshness and novelty each time) until you 'beat' a scenario. That's fine if one struggles to get to that point. But we have not found the game very difficult. None of the scenarios took us more than 3 plays to get the best ending.

We love the game but I wish we could play it more often. But for more replayability it needs one of 3 things:

Scenarios that are more difficult (so that they take more plays to complete).

Scenarios that are more complex, with varying objectives, more variation in events, maps, things to find, to keep that unpredictable 1st play game experience going longer with each scenario.

Scenarios released very frequently (at a reasonable price or else it is self-defeating).

Some combination of the above will put the game on the table far more often. Personally I'm wanting to see the game develop over the next year and I'm hoping the scenarios will become more complex. The only limit is in the talent of the designers. I do not believe it is asking too much for a scenario to have multiple possible objectives or story variations.

Deano2099 wrote:
If you want a different story each time then sure it's just 4 scenarios. But this isn't like Time Stories where you can "solve" each scenario and playing again is literally pointless.


I think it is very similar to T.I.M.E stories in that regard and indeed we have the same problem with both games: they're sitting on the shelf when we would like to be playing them.

Why is replaying a Mansions scenario in which you've seen 95% of what there is to see and completed the investigation any more of a replayable prospect than a T.I.M.E Stories scenario where you've seen 95% of what there is to see and completed the mission? I don't see any difference.
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High Flying Bird wrote:


Deano2099 wrote:
If you want a different story each time then sure it's just 4 scenarios. But this isn't like Time Stories where you can "solve" each scenario and playing again is literally pointless.


I think it is very similar to T.I.M.E stories in that regard and indeed we have the same problem with both games: they're sitting on the shelf when we would like to be playing them.

Why is replaying a Mansions scenario in which you've seen 95% of what there is to see and completed the investigation any more of a replayable prospect than a T.I.M.E Stories scenario where you've seen 95% of what there is to see and completed the mission? I don't see any difference.


Well when I play Pandemic I've seen 100% of what there is to see before but still enjoy the actual gameplay.

In TIME Stories, once you know what to do, the game is trivial, the only thing that can go wrong is really poor dice rolls, and you can minimize that. There's not much game left.

With Mansions, once you know what to do, you still have the problem of implementing it, dealing with whatever tweaks and differences the scenario throws at you, and perhaps trying different investigators who will need to take different approaches. I find there's still enough game there to be worth playing.

Obviously, if what you want is just an interactive story and don't care much for the gameplay elements, which is perfectly valid, then you're only going to get a play or two out of each scenario. It becomes quite an expensive game but also one of very few games that can offer that. But if you actually enjoy the process of playing, rather than just the discover, replays have a fair amount of value.
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My experience playing the first scenario twice:

First time, playing with four other gamers: We misplayed a few rules (especially "in range") but the mystery was fun and exciting. We really didn't know how things would unravel but we definitely felt the tension. The endgame was tremendous as we formed a human chain and relayed a key item back out - dodging monsters on the way. Tremendously fun.

Second time, playing with my three kids (ages 10, 11, 12): Even though they were less experienced, I coached them at times and didn't think that affected the success (or lack thereof). This time, one of those transporting monsters grabbed the librarian and teleported to the other side of the house. It was a mad scramble rescuing her (since she was useless fighting on her own) while picking up clues and stuff on the way. We didn't stop the "big event", but had a chance to kill off all the baddies in the end while the house was going up in flames. And then the clock struck 11 pm and my wife gave me the evil eye and the kids had to go to bed! whistle It was definitely 50/50 if we would have survived ... but it was also definitely fun! Even though I knew the general outlines of the scenario, it was how different monsters came out and reacted to different investigators that made the story totally different.

I think the great thing about this system is the emergent gameplay that occurs due primarily to variability of investigators/abilities and monster interactions. This creates the drama and excitement even when doing a second or third playthough of a scenario.

And if anyone comes out with a scenario editor ... sign me up to help create content!

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Deano2099 wrote:
High Flying Bird wrote:


Deano2099 wrote:
If you want a different story each time then sure it's just 4 scenarios. But this isn't like Time Stories where you can "solve" each scenario and playing again is literally pointless.


I think it is very similar to T.I.M.E stories in that regard and indeed we have the same problem with both games: they're sitting on the shelf when we would like to be playing them.

Why is replaying a Mansions scenario in which you've seen 95% of what there is to see and completed the investigation any more of a replayable prospect than a T.I.M.E Stories scenario where you've seen 95% of what there is to see and completed the mission? I don't see any difference.


Well when I play Pandemic I've seen 100% of what there is to see before but still enjoy the actual gameplay.

In TIME Stories, once you know what to do, the game is trivial, the only thing that can go wrong is really poor dice rolls, and you can minimize that. There's not much game left.

With Mansions, once you know what to do, you still have the problem of implementing it, dealing with whatever tweaks and differences the scenario throws at you, and perhaps trying different investigators who will need to take different approaches. I find there's still enough game there to be worth playing.

Obviously, if what you want is just an interactive story and don't care much for the gameplay elements, which is perfectly valid, then you're only going to get a play or two out of each scenario. It becomes quite an expensive game but also one of very few games that can offer that. But if you actually enjoy the process of playing, rather than just the discover, replays have a fair amount of value.


Okay, those are fair points but I don't think any of those factors are hugely enticing to make you want to play again after 'beating' a scenario.

'Problem of implementing it' (strategy): but we already 'solved' this problem. If I played out a perfect strategy and succeeded then I overcame the challenge. Doing it again is boring to me. I acknowledge that is a 'mileage' issue. But really, how does it vary from T.I.M.E Stories? The only thing that will vary the next time you play is the monster spawns (and that's mostly superficial, as there is very little difference between monsters and they always spawn in pretty much the same place at the same time. You might get a cultist or a witch or a zombie etc but they play largely the same and will be given pretty much the same Health and they will spawn in the same place at approximately the same time) and the results of your dice rolls (the map too, possibly, if you didn't exhaust the possibilities already). Not that much more variable than if you replayed a T.I.M.E Stories scenario honestly. It maybe does a good job of giving the illusion of change compared to T.I.ME Stories but the game will mostly play out exactly the same. I don't think it's comparable to your example of Pandemic, or, to give a more thematically similar comparison, Eldritch Horror, where the game is designed to endlessly vary due to a high quotient of random factors. Truly, no 2 games will be the same. That's not true of Mansions. The same strategy and the same actions (with just a small amount of improvisation to account for dice rolling) should 'beat' the same scenario most of the time. Far less improvisation is needed than in a non-scenario based game.

Playing with different investigators: you could do the same in T.I.M.E Stories: replay with different characters. Again, I don't think it will make a significant difference to the outcome, probably even less so in Mansions than T.I.M.E Stories, as I think the Mansions characters are perhaps a little more versatile in their ability to adapt.

As for tweaks and so on: seeing EVERYTHING and understanding a scenario fully: it's design, it's variation, is very interesting to me with my INTP personality - but after a certain point I want to do that through experimenting with the App, not actually setting up and playing - similarly to how I might peruse a T.I.M.E Stories deck after completing a mission to look at the cards we didn't see and finish the jigsaw. The design remains interesting to me... but as a game, a challenge, it doesn't, as the next game simply will not be different enough to the one I just 'beat'.

For the record, I have relayed a couple of the T.I.M.E Stories scenarios and personally find the prospect of replaying the Mansions ones again after completing the investigation similarly unenticing. I find the only mileage I can get out of either is to try playing again with a 'roleplaying' vibe, rather than trying to play optimally to win... but doing this is largely to try and eke out more play time and get those lovely cards / components out on the table than through enthusiasm.
 
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No it sure doesn't. Can people now stop asking this question every couple of minutes?
 
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High Flying Bird wrote:
Deano2099 wrote:
High Flying Bird wrote:


Deano2099 wrote:
If you want a different story each time then sure it's just 4 scenarios. But this isn't like Time Stories where you can "solve" each scenario and playing again is literally pointless.


I think it is very similar to T.I.M.E stories in that regard and indeed we have the same problem with both games: they're sitting on the shelf when we would like to be playing them.

Why is replaying a Mansions scenario in which you've seen 95% of what there is to see and completed the investigation any more of a replayable prospect than a T.I.M.E Stories scenario where you've seen 95% of what there is to see and completed the mission? I don't see any difference.


Well when I play Pandemic I've seen 100% of what there is to see before but still enjoy the actual gameplay.

In TIME Stories, once you know what to do, the game is trivial, the only thing that can go wrong is really poor dice rolls, and you can minimize that. There's not much game left.

With Mansions, once you know what to do, you still have the problem of implementing it, dealing with whatever tweaks and differences the scenario throws at you, and perhaps trying different investigators who will need to take different approaches. I find there's still enough game there to be worth playing.

Obviously, if what you want is just an interactive story and don't care much for the gameplay elements, which is perfectly valid, then you're only going to get a play or two out of each scenario. It becomes quite an expensive game but also one of very few games that can offer that. But if you actually enjoy the process of playing, rather than just the discover, replays have a fair amount of value.


Okay, those are fair points but I don't think any of those factors are hugely enticing to make you want to play again after 'beating' a scenario.


Sure, but I think it's on a scale. They're not as restrictive as Time Stories - it's not just the monsters and map layout, the combat cards the monsters draw are random and most of the Mythos effects are random. In some scenarios the "clue trail" also has variation.

Eldritch Horror is an interesting comparison because honestly that had replayability issues before the first expansion (have a look at the BGG forums from back then) because those random pools weren't large enough. You'd see everything in four games after which it was just remixed around.

Time Stories is also an odd one as yeah, some of the scenarios have more replayability than others. But it also has (close to) zero randomisation (PoD has a tiny bit).

I'm not saying the variation is on par with Pandemic, just that it's a scale. The scale would go Pandemic -> Eldritch Horror -> Mansions -> Time Stories for me.
 
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Kaworu17 wrote:
No it sure doesn't. Can people now stop asking this question every couple of minutes?

Either way, they won't.

edit: I always forget that there's no indication to which post you replied unless you click quote.
 
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Deano2099 wrote:
High Flying Bird wrote:
Deano2099 wrote:
High Flying Bird wrote:


Deano2099 wrote:
If you want a different story each time then sure it's just 4 scenarios. But this isn't like Time Stories where you can "solve" each scenario and playing again is literally pointless.


I think it is very similar to T.I.M.E stories in that regard and indeed we have the same problem with both games: they're sitting on the shelf when we would like to be playing them.

Why is replaying a Mansions scenario in which you've seen 95% of what there is to see and completed the investigation any more of a replayable prospect than a T.I.M.E Stories scenario where you've seen 95% of what there is to see and completed the mission? I don't see any difference.


Well when I play Pandemic I've seen 100% of what there is to see before but still enjoy the actual gameplay.

In TIME Stories, once you know what to do, the game is trivial, the only thing that can go wrong is really poor dice rolls, and you can minimize that. There's not much game left.

With Mansions, once you know what to do, you still have the problem of implementing it, dealing with whatever tweaks and differences the scenario throws at you, and perhaps trying different investigators who will need to take different approaches. I find there's still enough game there to be worth playing.

Obviously, if what you want is just an interactive story and don't care much for the gameplay elements, which is perfectly valid, then you're only going to get a play or two out of each scenario. It becomes quite an expensive game but also one of very few games that can offer that. But if you actually enjoy the process of playing, rather than just the discover, replays have a fair amount of value.


Okay, those are fair points but I don't think any of those factors are hugely enticing to make you want to play again after 'beating' a scenario.


Sure, but I think it's on a scale. They're not as restrictive as Time Stories - it's not just the monsters and map layout, the combat cards the monsters draw are random and most of the Mythos effects are random. In some scenarios the "clue trail" also has variation.

Eldritch Horror is an interesting comparison because honestly that had replayability issues before the first expansion (have a look at the BGG forums from back then) because those random pools weren't large enough. You'd see everything in four games after which it was just remixed around.

Time Stories is also an odd one as yeah, some of the scenarios have more replayability than others. But it also has (close to) zero randomisation (PoD has a tiny bit).

I'm not saying the variation is on par with Pandemic, just that it's a scale. The scale would go Pandemic -> Eldritch Horror -> Mansions -> Time Stories for me.


At this point we largely come to agreement in general terms (even about Eldritch - I did buy it upon release and I totally agree with you about the card pools in the base game). It is a sliding scale of replayability, and Mansions, as a scenario-based game, with a non-human 'adversary', is always going to be on the lower end, no matter what... I accept that. And I agree Mansions is a little bit higher than T.I.M.E Stories on that scale... but my point is it higher enough to give me a greater desire to replay it than T.I.M.E Stories? The answer, for me personally, is no. We're talking about a binary state here: 'I want to replay.' vs 'I don't want to replay'. Being a little bit more variable or chaotic than T.I.M.E Stories doesn't count for anything unless it changes that binary state from 'no' to 'yes'.

Space Cowboys has really failed, in my opinion, to keep up with demand for content with their game. I hope Fantasy Flight doesn't do the same with Mansions. There needs to be quite a high turnover of new content or they need to make the content more complex and longer-lasting.
 
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Kaworu17 wrote:
No it sure doesn't. Can people now stop asking this question every couple of minutes?


Well... people would be less confused on this issue if they only got answers from people who had actually played the game a fair bit and knew what they were talking about... but typically such conversations are filled with comments like "actually, I replayed the 1st scenario and the map changed and this thing happened that didn't happen the first time! It was awesome!"

Just saying...
 
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High Flying Bird wrote:
There needs to be quite a high turnover of new content or they need to make the content more complex and longer-lasting.

This N

I hope FFG is taking a more measured approach to creating App content. Making sure the game (and expansions) are well received before investing programming/writing time into more stories. This would explain why there are currently only 4 scenarios to play.

That being said, once this is deemed a commercial success, I really hope they shift focus into more App content. While I haven't finished all 4 scenarios (with hopefully a 5th coming tomorrow), I agree that we need fresh content to add longevity to the game.

I wish we knew FFG's intent on expanding the App. We can take cues from Descent where they just expanded content for that game - but it was tied to additional physical content if I understood correctly. I just hope we see some "bonus" material for the App sometime this year.
 
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Mistermannindy wrote:

I wish we knew FFG's intent on expanding the App. We can take queues from Descent where they just expanded content for that game - but it was tied to additional physical content if I understood correctly. I just hope we see some "bonus" material for the App sometime this year.


Cues.
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Dean L
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High Flying Bird wrote:
Deano2099 wrote:
. But it also has (close to) zero randomisation (PoD has a tiny bit).

I'm not saying the variation is on par with Pandemic, just that it's a scale. The scale would go Pandemic -> Eldritch Horror -> Mansions -> Time Stories for me.


At this point we largely come to agreement in general terms (even about Eldritch - I did buy it upon release and I totally agree with you about the card pools in the base game). It is a sliding scale of replayability, and Mansions, as a scenario-based game, with a non-human 'adversary', is always going to be on the lower end, no matter what... I accept that. And I agree Mansions is a little bit higher than T.I.M.E Stories on that scale... but my point is it higher enough to give me a greater desire to replay it than T.I.M.E Stories? The answer, for me personally, is no. We're talking about a binary state here: 'I want to replay.' vs 'I don't want to replay'. Being a little bit more variable or chaotic than T.I.M.E Stories doesn't count for anything unless it changes that binary state from 'no' to 'yes'.


Fair enough. It is different for me - in that I've played a bunch of the base scenarios with one group, but will be playing with a different group tomorrow. Now I could give one of the new expansion scenarios a try but I think instead we'll just do the first scenario again. Am quite keen to give it another go. And there's no way I'd do that with Time Stories.

(Although arguably, I've not won that first scenario yet - my group won it last time but I lost...)
 
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I do t see how Mansions has that much less variability than Pandemic. Monsters and items are completely different in Mansions, where as only cube spawns are different in Pandemic. And a different infection in Pandemic isn't going to drastically alter the game, whereas a different monster in Mansions can create a drastically different fight.

Mansions has no "perfect solution" from what I've played of the first scenario. Yes, I know exactly what has to be done...but that's true of Pandemic as well--hell, I can tell within the first two rounds if we've already likely lost a game.

BuCan't do that at all with Mansions. And yet I still love playing Pandemic because of the puzzle each time. And in my opinion, Mansions definitely has that with its variable monsters and items.
 
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