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The Guns of August» Forums » Rules

Subject: Advance after combat rss

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fangotango
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Rule 13.45: "...any opposing combat unit(s) that participated in the attack which left the opposing hex vacant and that is currently adjacent to the hex, may immediately advance into the hex."

I have always read this to mean that if more than one attack is made against a hex, only the combat units (but not the support units) involved in the final attack are eligible to advance after combat. However, I recognize that the phrase "the attack which left the opposing hex vacant" could be read to include all the units which made attacks on that hex. I am wondering how other players interpret this rule.
 
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Paul Popejoy
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fangotango wrote:
Rule 13.45: "...any opposing combat unit(s) that participated in the attack which left the opposing hex vacant and that is currently adjacent to the hex, may immediately advance into the hex."

I have always read this to mean that if more than one attack is made against a hex, only the combat units (but not the support units) involved in the final attack are eligible to advance after combat. However, I recognize that the phrase "the attack which left the opposing hex vacant" could be read to include all the units which made attacks on that hex. I am wondering how other players interpret this rule.

Hi!

I interpret "the attack" to be "the one attack whose resolution left no enemy units in the hex."

For example, assume you are resolving the attack against a hex with three defending combat units as one attack against each of the three units individually, which means that you are conducting three separate attacks.

Assuming the first two attacks result in the defending unit leaving the hex, then neither of them resulted in no enemy units in the hex.

If the final attack succeeds in driving the last enemy combat unit from the hex, only those units that attacked the final unit are allowed to advance because it was their attack that cleared the hex.

Hope this helps!
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fangotango
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Hi Paul,

That's how I have always played it, but the term "the attack" can be used to represent an attack against a hex, or a single attack as part of a larger attack against a hex. I think the rules could use an example such as you just wrote for greater clarity.

Thanks
 
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Paul Popejoy
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fangotango wrote:
Hi Paul,

That's how I have always played it, but the term "the attack" can be used to represent an attack against a hex, or a single attack as part of a larger attack against a hex. I think the rules could use an example such as you just wrote for greater clarity.

Thanks

Done for the V3.0 release (currently in work).
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Stu Carson
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13.19 clearly says that each attack is 1 calculation of odds and 1 die roll.

Not only that but advance after combat does not happen after an attack. It happens after the defender applies result and before attacker applies. This is so because it happens immediately once the hex is vacant. It is therefore integral to that attack, and cannot involve any units not in that particular attack, meaning adding combat strength to that die roll per 13.19 My 2 cents
 
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fangotango
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Evil Stu wrote:
13.19 clearly says that each attack is 1 calculation of odds and 1 die roll.

Not only that but advance after combat does not happen after an attack. It happens after the defender applies result and before attacker applies. This is so because it happens immediately once the hex is vacant. It is therefore integral to that attack, and cannot involve any units not in that particular attack, meaning adding combat strength to that die roll per 13.19 My 2 cents


Interesting. Does that mean on a BD result, an attacking unit could advance after combat, and then have the BD applied to them so they either retreat or are eliminated (but gain hex control)?
 
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fangotango
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Looking at rule 13.19, I think what is meant is that the advance after combat must be done before another combat is initiated in another hex. I think applying the combat result against the attacker after the attacker advances is a bit of a stretch.
 
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Stu Carson
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That is exactly how we play. A BD result means losses in taking the hex. A single attacker would gain control as you say. It actually plays well, and the 1 attacker gaining control doesn't occur too often, but I think it is right. A determined defender can trade troops to hold ground or give ground to conserve troops. Larger attacking forces, (2 or more attackers) can move forward against opposition at cost. A smaller force has more difficulty retaining contact.

It is also the only interpretation that is fully within the rules. The ordering is pretty clear; first defender decides, then attacker. AOC happens "immediately" upon defending hex being vacant. Immediately means immediately.
 
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Stu Carson
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fangotango wrote:
Looking at rule 13.19, I think what is meant is that the advance after combat must be done before another combat is initiated in another hex. I think applying the combat result against the attacker after the attacker advances is a bit of a stretch.


Florian, the stipulation that the defender must apply first would seem to have no effect if played as you suggest? Why is it there then?
 
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fangotango
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I agree that the defender has to apply the combat result first, followed by the attacker. But I am not so sure that the attacker gets to advance after combat before the attacking units are affected by the combat result themselves, which I what I think you are saying. I think the "immediately" means the attacker cannot initiate new attacks before deciding on whether and which units to advance after combat. It just doesn't make sense to me that the combat results that affect the attacker would not be applied until after advance after combat. I understand your argument, I just think the rule was not meant to be applied as it is literally written. By RAW, your interpretation works.
 
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Stu Carson
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That is what I'm saying. Most of the time there would no difference. I too get where you're coming from, it isn't unreasonable.
 
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Paul Popejoy
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fangotango wrote:
I agree that the defender has to apply the combat result first, followed by the attacker. But I am not so sure that the attacker gets to advance after combat before the attacking units are affected by the combat result themselves, which I what I think you are saying. I think the "immediately" means the attacker cannot initiate new attacks before deciding on whether and which units to advance after combat. It just doesn't make sense to me that the combat results that affect the attacker would not be applied until after advance after combat. I understand your argument, I just think the rule was not meant to be applied as it is literally written. By RAW, your interpretation works.

Evil Stu wrote:
That is what I'm saying. Most of the time there would no difference. I too get where you're coming from, it isn't unreasonable.

Hi!

I guess it depends on when you evaluate whether the hex has been evacuated.

I normally evaluate hex evacuation after both sides have felt the effects of combat since combat is simultaneous, even though the results are resolved in sequence.

From an historical standpoint, I cannot recall any instances during the war where a corps-sized unit defeated an enemy and advanced only to become demoralized and either retreat or disintegrate without any further enemy action.

Hope this helps!
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