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Subject: This isn't about how good or bad this game is... rss

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nat tact
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But what is Betrayal House on the Hill?

Before the betrayal there is no goal it is walk around and wait until the goal pops up. I understand there are the mini games of rolling dice to see if you lose or gain stats while you walk around and place tiles.

Are there any other games like this where the game or the goal of the game doesn't start until halfway through the game?
 
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maf man
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well the goal of this adventure game is to survive and stop the evil. Its there from the start and you need to explore the house to be ready for the 2nd part. Kinda think of it like any monster/superhero movie, first you find and identify the evil.

The Downfall of Pompeii kinda has that goal doesn't start till half way through thing

edit add:
where would the line be drawn to identify game goal changing half way through as a significant part of the game vs a strategic choice? Plenty of games heavily rely on you needing to change your choice of goal to win if you have a game with multiple winning conditions....I'm guessing if from the start of the game you have the ability to know for a fact the exact requirements to win
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In service to the Imperium of Man
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1) It's a co-op where the goal of the game is "put tiles on the board and find the haunt without dying".

2) It's an extended setup phase that replaces more boring instructions that could be in the book: "place fifteen tiles randomly to represent the house, then roll to determine the haunt and begin the game."
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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nathairday wrote:
Are there any other games like this where the game or the goal of the game doesn't start until halfway through the game?

I think that if this were posted in the Recommendations Forum with a title that gave a clue what you're seeking, e.g. "Games Where the Goals are Unknown At Start", you'd be far more likely to get useful feedback. Likewise, the question about Betrayal at House on the Hill would fare better in the Betrayal at House on the Hill forum.
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Pete
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It's a simplified RPG with a set of arbitrary but objective win conditions.

Pete (sums it up)
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Bryan Thunkd
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plezercruz wrote:
It's a simplified RPG with a set of arbitrary but objective win conditions.

Pete (sums it up)
I've never particularly felt like I was role-playing. At least not more than I do in any other board game.
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Pete
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Thunkd wrote:
plezercruz wrote:
It's a simplified RPG with a set of arbitrary but objective win conditions.

Pete (sums it up)
I've never particularly felt like I was role-playing. At least not more than I do in any other board game.
Hence "simplified." It's not an RPG in the sense that you act out your character or have perfect freedom, but it is an RPG in the "computer game RPG" sense, in that you explore the game world to acquire items and other buffs to modify your stats to in order to accomplish feats or succeed in the eventual combats.

Pete (thinks it's totally an "RPG" in this sense)
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maf man
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Thunkd wrote:
plezercruz wrote:
It's a simplified RPG with a set of arbitrary but objective win conditions.

Pete (sums it up)
I've never particularly felt like I was role-playing. At least not more than I do in any other board game.

its VERY light, to be a stepping stone for non-gamers. I've gotten a surprising # of friends into deeper boardgaming with "its basically like keeping track of your life in betrayal...."
so to a non-gamer its a RPG.
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Paul DeStefano
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It's a Zendrum. www.zendrum.com
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It's an adventure game.

The goal unto itself is to experience the adventure.
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Justin Strickland
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It's hugely thematic is what it is. The game is a silly take on haunted house films where a group of dimwitted friends/acquaintances unwisely decide to explore a haunted house and unfortunately, yet predictably, end up paying the price. Part of the fun of the game is discovery. If it just began one vs. many every time then it wouldn't nearly as fun or interesting.
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Jacob Jaskov
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nathairday wrote:
Are there any other games like this where the game or the goal of the game doesn't start until halfway through the game?


My game Fog of Love has evolving game goals.

In the beginning you have all your goals available (in the form of Story Ending cards). Each goal specifies distinct and often unique end conditions that are necessary in order to win the game. As the game evolves (i.e. as your fictional relationship progresses) you decide which goals to keep and which to discard. In each chapter in the game you have to discard 2-3 goals (out of 5-8 depending on the scenario). In the end you decide which goal to keep (and thus how you win).

This mechanic makes the initial game very explorative and open ended. Anything goes. As you and your partner make decisions some story endings will become more attractive than others. As you discard story endings your choices become more and more committing (like a real relationship).
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David Jones
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nathairday wrote:
Are there any other games like this where the game or the goal of the game doesn't start until halfway through the game?


The difficulty with this kind of question is that games like this require a storybook so that the goal changes each game. Once you have played a given scenario in Betrayal, you know what the goal is should you play that scenario again. If you recognize the scenario you are in you can try to get ahead of the game. You can't have a mid-game "reveal" if you played the game before as the reveal is no longer a secret. Most game developers don't want to take the time to create a multi-scenario storybook, so there are very few games that do this kind of thing.

That said, you should probably look at TIME Stories or Mansions of Madness. Mansions of Madness is similar to Betrayal in that it comes with a book of scenarios. The game master is allowed to look ahead and know what the goals are, but the events, plot twists, and victory conditions remain hidden from the players until a certain trigger is met (unless, of course, the players have played the scenario once before). I suppose in TIME Stories you know the goal from the beginning of the game, but you have to explore the environment before you can figure out how you are going achieve said goal. There is a way to loose, but you replay the scenario until you figure out how to win. The major downside is that each new scenario costs around $30 and they are not replayable.

You might look at it the Lord of the Rings LCG. Each scenario has 2-4 goals that you go through that tell a story. You know what the first goal is at the start of the game, but if you don't look at the cards when you set the game up, the remaining goals stay hidden until you complete the preceding goal. But again, once you've completed the scenario once, you know the goals upon replay. I think Fantasy Flight makes other LCG games if the LotR theme doesn't suit your fancy, but since deck construction is a mechanic I'm not fond of, I don't really know much about the other titles. There is a Lovecraft/Arkham Horror themed LCG coming out soon, so that may one to keep an eye on.

Mice and Mystics is board game based RPG that has ten scenarios linked to form a campaign. Again, there is a story book and you refrain from reading certain passages until a trigger is met. Its not quite the same as having the goal change in the middle of the game, but the story and board conditions in the middle of each scenario, nor do you know the best equipment to carry from one scenario to the next.

I'm not sure what exactly about the Betrayal appeals to you, but you might also look at "story" games like Tales of the Arabian Nights or Above and Below. Arabian Nights has a couple of victory conditions if I remember correctly, but you run around an environment somewhat randomly and have encounters that are read from a book which plays somewhat like a choose your own adventure novel. The outcomes of each encounter may further or hinder your progress towards victory. Above and Below is a city building/VP game, but you can send your citizens on quests which are read from a storybook and you have to make a choice of one of two tests to try to pass - the rewards of which are not revealed by the reader to the player. Passing a test will give your village some kind of reward which, again, adds a kind of twist in that you don't know what you are going to get and those rewards might change your strategy in future rounds.
 
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Chris Graves
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justrick wrote:
It's hugely thematic is what it is.

^I like this!

I listen to a podcast called "The Secret Cabal Gaming Podcast", and whenever this game comes up, they mention how the mechanics stink, but they love playing the game. I would throw this in the "Gateway Game" category, too. Every non-gamer I have introduced this to has LOVED it!
 
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