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Mansions of Madness: Second Edition» Forums » Variants

Subject: Alternatives to insanity Conditions rss

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Justin Colm
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Some people like the Insanity conditions and what they bring to the game... and that's cool, this topic is not about arguing that point.

Some people dislike them and this the purpose of this thread is to discuss alternatives for those players... is there a way to 'punish' Insane players and keep an air of tension around going insane without flipping the cards and effectively changing the purpose of the game?

A number of ideas jump to mind but I think the most elegant one is to rule that insane players MUST, under all circumstances, take all of their horror face up and keep it face up. They may never flip it down. Any effect that would normally do something like 'Do X and then flip this card face down' will stay face up and the 'Do X' effect will be triggered every time a Horror card would normally be flipped up. I think this will have a similar 'inconvenience' / want to avoid factor as the wounded condition has.

Any reasons this wouldn't work well? Better ideas?
 
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Casey Botkin
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I just removed the traitorous insanity cards. So sometimes it can make it more difficult to win but you are never actively trying to make other players lose.
 
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G Y
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Probably belongs in the Variants sub-forum.

I mentioned this somewhere else but I'll repeat it here:

The Player Agency Solution
When going insane, draw three cards instead of one, and pick the one you like best. Redraw as normally for each invalid card if you have a low player count.

(This lowers the chance of getting unwinnable conditions, and sometimes gives the option to avoid traitor games if the player doesn't want to play like that. Of course it will make the game slightly easier but it's still going to be a lesser-of-evils kind of choice.)

High Flying Bird wrote:
A number of ideas jump to mind but I think the most elegant one is to rule that insane players MUST, under all circumstances, take all of their horror face up and keep it face up. They may never flip it down. Any effect that would normally do something like 'Do X and then flip this card face down' will stay face up and the 'Do X' effect will be triggered every time a Horror card would normally be flipped up. I think this will have a similar 'inconvenience' / want to avoid factor as the wounded condition has.


I like it at first glance but it seems like it will be extremely painful. Getting chained to death by bad card draws sounds likely. For instance, "Absolute Terror: Suffer 1 additional facedown Horror. Then flip this card facedown" would lead to drawing another card faceup Horror each time you get hit with a flip-up condition, which could trigger another Absolute Terror, and so on. You would definitely die faster, and it would make the game harder and more unpredictable.

I think Insanity house rules should either work with the current Insanity cards or invent some alternative system, but messing with the facedown/faceup mechanics might get out of control quickly.
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Nicola Zee
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It seems to me the underlying issue is the number of traitorous cards is too high (25%) and the win condition of 2 of these cards is fairly easy and the win condition of one of the others is potentially very easy. This would be fine in a quick 1 hour game but for a game that can last several hours it can be somewhat disappointing that someone can win (and everyone else loses) just because they gained an insanity card with an easy win condition.

The main easy win traitor cards are (in order of easiness)
Spoiler (click to reveal)

Crisis of Conscience - Just get yourself eliminated?
For the Greater Good - Just get yourself eliminated?
One of the Thousand - Trivial if you can get a bladed weapon

A simple solution is just to remove the first 2 of these cards from the game. If your group really hates the semi-coop traitor cards removing all the traitor cards is a more drastic solution.

But instead I'm going to replace the first 2 of these cards with the following (non-traitorous cards) so that I can maintain a sufficient variety. There are not that many traitor cards to start with
Replacing these 2 significantly reduces the chance of a traitor with an easy win condition.

THE BEST DEFENCE: Only a weapon will keep you safe.
You do not win the game as normal. Instead you win only if the investigation is complete and you have at least one Weapon Item. Otherwise you lose the game.

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER: Only through knowledge can you save the world! You do not win the game as normal. Instead you win only if the investigation is complete and you have at least two Clues. Otherwise you lose the game.

[PS Added]And yes this thread should be moved to the variants section before the FFG fans start to raise a ruckus
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I'm the type of person that likes playing the game exactly how the developer intended. But that being said, it is YOUR game. You paid for it and there is nothing stopping you from house-ruling it to your heart's content

As long as you're having a good time with the game!
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Greg Filpus
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Nicola Zee wrote:
The main easy win traitor cards are (in order of easiness)
Spoiler (click to reveal)

Crisis of Conscience - Just get yourself eliminated?
For the Greater Good - Just get yourself eliminated?
One of the Thousand - Trivial if you can get a bladed weapon

A simple solution is just to remove the first 2 of these cards from the game. If your group really hates the semi-coop traitor cards removing all the traitor cards is a more drastic solution.


You're interpreting one of those wrong:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
For the Greater Good requires the investigation to be complete. So you have to sacrifice yourself at the last possible moment so your death doesn't prevent the rest of the team from winning.
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Justin Colm
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Sorry, people are quite right: this should have been in the variants section. Thank to whoever moved it
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Nicola Zee
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GregF wrote:
Nicola Zee wrote:
The main easy win traitor cards are (in order of easiness)
Spoiler (click to reveal)

Crisis of Conscience - Just get yourself eliminated?
For the Greater Good - Just get yourself eliminated?
One of the Thousand - Trivial if you can get a bladed weapon

A simple solution is just to remove the first 2 of these cards from the game. If your group really hates the semi-coop traitor cards removing all the traitor cards is a more drastic solution.


You're interpreting one of those wrong:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
For the Greater Good requires the investigation to be complete. So you have to sacrifice yourself at the last possible moment so your death doesn't prevent the rest of the team from winning.

Sorry about that. Good spot. I'm going to put that one back. I had already sleeved over it and had misread the text. The trouble was I was trying to replace the couple that were easy traitor wins without memorising the rest - so it did not completely spoil the surprise of drawing the cards. This just leaves the following two:

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Crisis of Conscience - Just get yourself eliminated?
One of the Thousand - Trivial if you can get a bladed weapon


[PS Added] This just adds to my argument that there are only a couple of Insanity cards which several players may find annoying. Now the real question becomes how many players - a couple, some, many or most. If the answer is many or most I would not be totally surprised if FFG released an 'errata' for the first one.

[EDITS] Added the PS and made some spelling fixes and added yet more clarifications. So in short lots of edits.
 
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Paul Tessmann
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You're missing one.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Pyromania - if 6 fires are on the board, the game's over.
 
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Nicola Zee
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Dainslaif wrote:
You're missing one.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Pyromania - if 6 fires are on the board, the game's over.

I've left that one out as I don't count it as an easy win. The traitor (usually) has to do something to achieve this win condition. There may be some scenarios where it may well be an easy win (e.g. Innsmouth) but that's not true of all scenarios. For most scenarios - assuming the group know the card exists - it's something they can usually keep an eye out for and react accordingly.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
If someone who is insane steals a light source and starts setting fire to things it's time to get really worried but extinguishing fires is fairly straight-forward


I'm not against having traitor cards. They add an element of tension. I just feel there are just a couple more than I like and these are just much too easy. What I am really against are the easy win traitor cards.


 
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