Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
10 Posts

Old School Tactical» Forums » Rules

Subject: Hex Control After Melee? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
nht
United States
Detroit
MI
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
I had an odd situation happen in my last game (Rattenkrieg).

Last turn. Germans controlled 3 VP hexes, Soviets 2. Soviets managed to dash a unit up to an occupied German VP hex (Z25) and then advance into melee. During melee, both sides were broken, so the Germans stayed in Z25 but the Soviet unit was forced to retreat. It opted to retreat to Y25, another VP hex, which happened to be unoccupied.

Does the broken Soviet unit capture that hex, thus winning the game for its side?

Since I was soloing, I opted for "yes" (more dramatic that way), but I couldn't find anything covering this in the rules -- Can broken units capture hexes in this way? Can units forced to retreat from melee capture hexes?

I suppose the answer could be "well, the Germans should've guarded their object hexes better."
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darryel C.
United States
Missouri
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
I believe you have to have the hex occupied by a good order unit. I will look it up in the morning after I get home from work, if someone else has not chimed in by then.

Sounds exciting either way.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Max Jansson
Sweden
Trollhättan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
darcone wrote:
I believe you have to have the hex occupied by a good order unit. I will look it up in the morning after I get home from work, if someone else has not chimed in by then.

Sounds exciting either way.


Yea, I think I remember reading this somewhere also.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
nht
United States
Detroit
MI
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
It could be in there, but I did a Ctrl-F for "good order" (and a few other keywords related to the question at hand) and came up with nothing.

But yeah, it was a pretty exciting game. One of those moments when you realize it's the last turn and you haven't pushed hard enough and are about to come up short... but then you see that if this one guy can just make to that hex... then maybe a victory could be pulled off after all.

In this case, they did it. Assuming control of the empty victory hex changes hands after the above-described melee, of course
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shayne Logan
Canada
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes squad has to be good order to control victory hex. This will be clarified in the rule set.
It's surprising how many things get overlooked or assumed when being developed.

Sounds like a good scrap.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
nht
United States
Detroit
MI
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Thanks for the ruling, Shayne. It seems logical that a good order unit would be necessary to capture a hex, but I couldn't find anything that said so!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
nht
United States
Detroit
MI
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Another quick question:

One thing that's bothered me is how to count MP when a unit is moving from one multi-level building to another across a street (for example, between the L6 & L5 hexes on the map in the Figure 2 on page 21 of the rules).

According to the rules, a unit pays COT +1 MP to go up or down elevations. So technically, since both L6 & L5 are Level 2 hexes, a unit moving from one to another should pay 2 MP -- the regular COT to move into a heavy structure.

Intuitively, however, this doesn't make much sense. After all, a unit in L6 would have to go down a level to cross the street to get to L5. So we could read this move as requiring 4 MP total: 1 to go down to street level, 2 to enter the new heavy structure, and 1 to go up a level.

This situation also brings up another issue -- if a unit is not allowed to be fired at using op fire when it is entering its final movement hex, then units running across the street (from L6 to L5), even if fully in the LOS of a heavy machine gun, always benefit from being in a heavy structure.

Not sure how to remedy this, given the way rules are written, but it also seems counter-intuitive.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shayne Logan
Canada
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
novaheat wrote:
Another quick question:

One thing that's bothered me is how to count MP when a unit is moving from one multi-level building to another across a street (for example, between the L6 & L5 hexes on the map in the Figure 2 on page 21 of the rules).

According to the rules, a unit pays COT +1 MP to go up or down elevations. So technically, since both L6 & L5 are Level 2 hexes, a unit moving from one to another should pay 2 MP -- the regular COT to move into a heavy structure.

Intuitively, however, this doesn't make much sense. After all, a unit in L6 would have to go down a level to cross the street to get to L5. So we could read this move as requiring 4 MP total: 1 to go down to street level, 2 to enter the new heavy structure, and 1 to go up a level.

This situation also brings up another issue -- if a unit is not allowed to be fired at using op fire when it is entering its final movement hex, then units running across the street (from L6 to L5), even if fully in the LOS of a heavy machine gun, always benefit from being in a heavy structure.

Not sure how to remedy this, given the way rules are written, but it also seems counter-intuitive.


Hey Doug,

The movement cost for moving into a structure is the cost used, 2 Movement pts. When a squad occupies a multi-level building it is considered to be occupying all levels. Is this a simplification, sure it is. But there are other games out there that dive down all these rabbit holes and I wanted OST to avoid some of them.

The street issue. I thought about this a lot when designing the map. Do I add a dash rule etc. but I decided against it.
If the unit chooses to move into the street and use movement on the road, then it doesn't get the defense bonus. However if it is moving building to building then it gets the defense bonus.
Is this a stretch, I don't believe so, especially on the streets of Stalingrad. I don't think there was 1 square yard of truly open terrain in the city. So it may look like a nice open patch but in reality there is a lot of debris and rubble in those streets. These tight urban hexes really are tight urban hexes.

Who knows down the road with some cities that aren't a pile of ruins, like Arnhem maybe.

The OP fire rule is going to be handled. It is mostly the way it was written, the unit can still be fired at in its final hex, it is just attacked by the opposing player in his regular phase of action.
It is a simple fix and I'll eliminate any hangups with the mechanic.

The Stalingrad map can be a challenge to play on sometimes, especially with some LOS, but I think the games are exciting on it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
nht
United States
Detroit
MI
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Thanks for the clarification! I've only just started playing on the Stalingrad map. A lot different from the scenarios I was playing on the other maps, but loads of fun.

Really looking forward to Vol. 2!

Not sure where you got "Doug" from, though

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shayne Logan
Canada
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Not Doug?

Apologies, I try to match real people to avatars when I can.
Yours I guessed wrong
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.