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Subject: Soft Turns and Sharp Turns rss

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Andrea Gusmeroli
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Morbegno
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Hi all,
I've just read the rulebook and one question came to my mind: Soft Turns and Sharp Turns are exactly like straight track tiles, aren't they? I mean, no different movement rules?

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Jere Kasanen
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GThreepwood wrote:
Hi all,
I've just read the rulebook and one question came to my mind: Soft Turns and Sharp Turns are exactly like straight track tiles, aren't they? I mean, no different movement rules?



Different movement only applies when in mountains (blue or red lined roads.
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Anders Bertelsen
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GThreepwood wrote:
Hi all,
I've just read the rulebook and one question came to my mind: Soft Turns and Sharp Turns are exactly like straight track tiles, aren't they? I mean, no different movement rules?



They are exactly like straight road. The Turns are only there so you can shape the route to fit a limited playing area instead of having one long, straight strip of road.
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Benji
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Hm... why is that? Wouldn't it be nice if they actually added something to gameplay?

Like the first turn space you enter costs 2 movement points? Sharp turns only have 1 lane? To be honest: Basically racing on a straight lane of different lengths every time does not sound very exciting...
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Anders Bertelsen
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Benji68 wrote:
Hm... why is that? Wouldn't it be nice if they actually added something to gameplay?

Like the first turn space you enter costs 2 movement points? Sharp turns only have 1 lane? To be honest: Basically racing on a straight lane of different lengths every time does not sound very exciting...


The climbs and descents give plenty of variation for excitement. And even if you were to play the exact same route several times in a row, each race would be different because the dynamcis between the riders regarding slipstream and exhaustion will play out differently.

Could more different road types (one-lane stretches, etc.) add something to the game? Definitely, but it would add a bit of complexity as well as a lot of production cost, as you would have to have more road tiles in the box. Personally, I'm hoping Asger makes an expansion at some point, but the base game has hours and hours of entertaining variations in it.

If the turns did something like you suggest in the current format, those effects would absolutely dominate the course, as you need a lot of turns to keep the table size down. I'm not saying it couldn't be interesting in it's own right, but it would throw the game balance completely out of whack and give a very different experience.
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Benji
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Thanks for your perspective. I can see how having as many turns as there are now making turns a too dominating feature of a track. I am still interested in the game (in fact i have pre-ordered it and will get it in Essen), but as you do, i am kind of hoping for an expansion (maybe including three-lane straight sections that can be reduced to the two lane turns and straights we already have). Thunder Alley and Grand Prix have an interesting yet simple way of handling turns too...
 
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Asger Harding Granerud
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Thanks for taking an interest!

I hope you will reserve judgement till you've tried it I can tell you I think you're wrong, but to convince you it needs to be played. And the length of a stage hardly varies either, it is the geography and player interaction that creates the replayability.

In my opinion turns are one of the smallest aspects of real life cycling. Mountains come first, and way before turns comes: rider types, paved roads, side wind, grand tours, hill sprints etc. All items that I hope to add to the game if it gets popular enough (those mentioned are tested already).

Besides it doesn't make immediate sense to me to have turns cost extra move. It would (almost) be the same to just make the stage one square longer, and achieve it without a special rule. The 'turns' I do have plans for are much more stylized/stereotypical in the form of roundabouts.

From the beginning this system has been flexible enough to add a lot of complexity. My design goal was to keep a streamlined game, that catches gamers but allows families in on it. This might not be right for all gamer types, but you aren't Pokemon Go though, we don't have to catch you all

If you do come to Essen, please drop by for a demo. The team is there all week, but I'll be helping out Thu-Fri 15-16 and Sat-Sun 10-12! Or wait for the reviews to turn you

Regards
Asger
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Asger Harding Granerud
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PS didn't see your latest post before replying.

And currently one wide sections is reserved for paved roads. However, I could see the same work in short sections as sharp turns. Less room and extra risk of small crashes or just mistiming the turn to loose tempo. Could work!

3 wide is reserved for highways and a 5p expansion if we get there!

Asger
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Benji
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As i said, i AM looking forward to getting and actually playing the game next week (and maybe even meeting you in Essen). More players, options, stuff is always better, and since i like racing games, i will do my part to make an expansion possible
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Asger Harding Granerud
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Fantastic! And if it doesn't come to an expansion, I promise to put all my ideas up as PNP for free here on BGG (some are already uploaded!).

Asger
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Joel Wright
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I have been given a review copy by Asger, and I too was a little disappointed to read in the rules that corners have no effect in the game but I have played it, and it is all about strategic playing of your cards how to advance up the hills and back down. we had a really fun time with it.

But I am also excited to hear that there is an expansion in the works with some cool extra elements to add to the game, and 5th player would great even a 6th player as there is little down time between players.

one game we did play with 5 players, 2 people got together as a team and controlled a bike each. so really you could play it as 4 teams of 2 each controlling a bike each.
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Asger Harding Granerud
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5-6 player isn't a downtime problem, it is a congestion problem. And in the core game/product it is a price point / barrier to entry problem too.

But there are ideas to fix that too. The hard part is finding out which expansion to make, if we get that luxury. I think I have material for close to 10 mini expansions or at least 3-4 bigger ones.

For now if you want to dig deeper, check out the Grand Tour rules here on BGG, including the variable rider powers.

Regards
Asger
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Benji
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I have to admit, the closer we get to Essen, the further this game has made it almost to the top of my "most anticipated" list. Looking really forward to getting it this thursday!
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Asger Harding Granerud
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Now you're getting my Essen hopes up

Happy racing
Asger
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Benji
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Played it twice already - everyone loved it, me included. Great job, amazing game!
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Richard Dewsbery
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Also played twice (dead flat stages), and loved it.
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