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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: The Chains that Rust hybrid classes rss

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Sean Kolodji
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I wanted to know what people's impressions of the hybrid classes were if anyone has used them. When I opened them up and starting reading, I was expecting more. You just get 3 new cards to replace the level 3 cards and you get to pick outside your normal archetype. Am I missing something? Is it fun? Does it change the game play much? Just wanted to hear some feedback. Thanks.
 
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Paul
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You're correct on what it gives you:

6 XP of cards (split over 1 base skill and 3 purchasable skills) in your archetype, with the base skill granting you the ability to choose a standard deck belonging to a specific other archetype, without its 3XP cards (so you still end up with 15 XP worth of skills available to purchase).

I have played with each of the hybrid classes, and I think they're quite a bit of fun. I enjoy pairing the hero abilities and feats of one archetype with skills that were previously unavailable to it (one of my favorite examples of this is Lyssa as a berserker- her hero ability lets her change a die when attacking an adjacent figure to red- so if she's whirlwinding, for example, she might attack all adjacent figures with a blue/red/green instead of a blue/green/green mace of aver).

Heroes also get to balance their stats a bit- if you don't like how warriors have low stamina, be a steelcaster and use the runemaster's iron will- or just the steelcaster's "iron blooded"- to apply +1 to your stamina. You could use both to get +2 if you happen to be a steelcaster runemaster.

I find that the hybrid classes themselves aren't mindblowing, but they add a huge amount of replay value in new combinations to the existing heroes and classes. I hadn't picked up spiritspeaker, hexer, stalker, or berserker in a while, but the hybrids gave me a good reason to.
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Kyle Pede
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zaltyre wrote:
You're correct on what it gives you:

6 XP of cards (split over 1 base skill and 3 purchasable skills) in your archetype, with the base skill granting you the ability to choose a standard deck belonging to a specific other archetype, without its 3XP cards (so you still end up with 15 XP worth of skills available to purchase).

I have played with each of the hybrid classes, and I think they're quite a bit of fun. I enjoy pairing the hero abilities and feats of one archetype with skills that were previously unavailable to it (one of my favorite examples of this is Lyssa as a berserker- her hero ability lets her change a die when attacking an adjacent figure to red- so if she's whirlwinding, for example, she might attack all adjacent figures with a blue/red/green instead of a blue/green/green mace of aver).

Heroes also get to balance their stats a bit- if you don't like how warriors have low stamina, be a steelcaster and use the runemaster's iron will- or just the steelcaster's "iron blooded"- to apply +1 to your stamina. You could use both to get +2 if you happen to be a steelcaster runemaster.

I find that the hybrid classes themselves aren't mindblowing, but they add a huge amount of replay value in new combinations to the existing heroes and classes. I hadn't picked up spiritspeaker, hexer, stalker, or berserker in a while, but the hybrids gave me a good reason to.


Have you played much with hybrid stalker? My impression from the opinions of the community is that it's the weakest before ctr was released.
 
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Paul
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Stalker is not one of the most powerful classes, largely (I think) because it's 3XP skills are so comparatively lackluster. Because of this, giving them up for the watchman skills is an improvement. You don't lose much, but you gain some cool healing abilities.

I liked Gherrin as a watchman stalker because he could boost attacks- Sahla was fun because he could play with poison barbs.
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Nate Parkes
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zaltyre wrote:
I find that the hybrid classes themselves aren't mindblowing, but they add a huge amount of replay value in new combinations to the existing heroes and classes.


This.

I think you have to set the right level of expectation with the Hybrid classes. "Hybrid" is almost a misnomer, because it might conjure the idea of blending two completely independent classes (like a necromancer/beastmaster or something).

The Hyrbid classes might be better termed "cross-archetype" classes. They give each hero access to an entirely different set of classes.

And they aren't top-tier power choices, because I think they're intended to appeal to "creative" players. It's like the timmy/spike/johnny distinction in magic.

Timmy plays for theme, so he'll run the class he thinks is thematically the coolest, even if it's not the most effective (Like a Stalker or Prophet).

Spike plays to win, so he'll run the most effective class (I don't know... Knight? I'm not a Spike.)

The Hybrid classes give Johnny something to do, like create a Spiritspeaker-Monk that can heal 7 damage every round (but only once he unlocks the exact skills he needs).
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Mlai00 Mlai00
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So now you've heard from the opinions of the game vets. Predictably,they will tell you that they're "very excited" over the prospects of playing with the mediocre changes. An analogy is if you talk to fighting game vets, and they'll tell you all about the changes in the combo system betw SF4:UE and SF5 which "changes the whole game".

But if you don't sleep and breathe fighting games, I challenge you to think buying SF5 is great deal if you have SF4:UE.

Yes, I did have the misconception that hybrid class meant I get to mix 2 classes together. Why? Because I don't see how else it would be worth it for me to care, since otherwise I am just getting a pittance of actual new class cards.

Yes, now the heroes get to select new archetypes. What it really means is that now you can mix specific hero abilities/feats with more class cards. Yes, it is "something new". It is up to you to decide if that is "worth an overpriced expansion" degree of new.
 
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Sebastian H.
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Mlai00 wrote:
So now you've heard from the opinions of the game vets. Predictably,they will tell you that they're "very excited" over the prospects of playing with the mediocre changes.


Where is this coming from? What you are saying couldn´t be further from the truth. Zaltyre clearly stated what he thinks about hybrid classes (and who else would you be talking about?). Here is an important quote for reference:

zaltyre wrote:
I find that the hybrid classes themselves aren't mindblowing, but they add a huge amount of replay value in new combinations to the existing heroes and classes.


You being critical about hybrid classes is one thing, and a totally valid opinion. But using someone as a strawman, who allegedly said things you disagree with (which he obviously didn´t), is simply dishonest.
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Mlai00 Mlai00
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Whereas you concentrate on the words "aren't mindblowing", I was obviously concentrating on the words "add a huge amount of replay value." He said both, and that is the truth.

I would like to clarify that I habitually use quotation marks not to actually quote someone, but sort of as the gesture of air quotes. That has led to online misunderstandings of "wtf man I never said that quote." So I should revise that habit.
 
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Dean L
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Mlai00 wrote:
So now you've heard from the opinions of the game vets. Predictably,they will tell you that they're "very excited" over the prospects of playing with the mediocre changes. An analogy is if you talk to fighting game vets, and they'll tell you all about the changes in the combo system betw SF4:UE and SF5 which "changes the whole game".


It's the 7th boxed expansion, and something like the 42nd product in the Descent line. Surely at this point, anyone thinking of buying it is a "vet"?

No-one is suggesting it makes a great Descent player's first expansion.
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Erik Kjellberg
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Just played with the hybrid classes and wanna tell you all that one is the monk which I think is retardly strong:
3 exp and you get no blank on ALL defence dice and can change each of those dice to best result AND you can make an attack that cannot miss (unarmed but with another skill you can get upp to range as pierce and that will make you able to proc any status conditions you are able to inflict on any monster and it have at least stun as monk surge).

With tomble as a monk I could easily get 3+ gray dice (just buy an armor to another hero) and those dice worst result would be getting all with 1 shield (but you have 2/6 sides that grants 3). The monk cannot use armor but a simple cloak also gives a brown die and that means almost every time 2 shields. The beating that this hero can endure is insane and he is also a Healer class which means he can heal himself etc. In my opinion this combination or just monk is broken :/.

Also with tainted cards he gains +2 free hp and the overlord gains nothing and with almost every quest being having to kill all the heroes to taint them we just played one of these quests for 4 h with the overlord killing almost every hero every turn but could not just get tumble down and lost in the end.
 
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Paul
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vincentgraymore wrote:


Also with tainted cards he gains +2 free hp and the overlord gains nothing and with almost every quest being having to kill all the heroes to taint them we just played one of these quests for 4 h with the overlord killing almost every hero every turn but could not just get tumble down and lost in the end.


Double check that you're playing tainted cards correctly. A hero with a face up tainted card cannot perform a stand up action (a hero's tainted card is flipped face up once he is KO, and stays up for the rest of the quest). Additionally, a hero with a face up tainted card cannot revive another hero. It sounds strange to me that your OL was needing to knock heroes down repeatedly each turn- once each hero has been down once (except tomble), tomble should be the only one able to revive anyone (unless one of your heroes has a heroic feat that heals). In any case, tomble should have gotten very lonely very quickly.
 
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Erik Kjellberg
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I know how tainted cards works but with only some - to attributes doesn't mean much while tainted and a lonley Tomble can revive 2 heroes next to him and these two heroes gets each of their actions which mean that with a tanky warrior that can oneshot minions the reinforce didnt matter if the overlord tried to zerg us and with another healer the party gained +3-6 hp easily on the revive and with actions and a single stamina (which was easily gained by hitting close monsters or simply given during the revive) even more. Tomble was extremly tanky with the warrior alive and the warrior himself was not that easily killed. Tainted cards doesnt prevent heroes from healing when they are up so the +2 hp really seems kinda free. Even if the overlord tried to amass his reinforce to have max group limit the 1 rest action of the heroes gave even more HP, skills and a single miss from an overlord monster just made it worse.

Don't get me wrong one hero was kocked out for like 20+ turns without getting revived as he was away from Tomble. Also the heroes died ALOT. But the damage from minions with only 2 damage dices didn't amass as quickly as the defence on the insane monk tomble combo could easily topple a minimum of 3-4 damage every single time (the warrior 2-3). The time when Tomble almost died was when a dark charm took over the hero with the best weapon and tomble only had 2 dice and rolled poorly and the charmed hero got a hit of like 7 damage with some pierce a round before the overlord was able to take out every hero except Tomble. Most of the time the dark charms however just got put back on the overlord deck cause of a Marshal with 5 in book and with the skill by the book.

Could the overlord have played better? Probably (the new overlord class didn't help that much and as always warlord would have been a better choice). Could it just be that the heroes was lucky? Maybe, but we rolled like a thousand dice during one encounter so it seems more like the odds weren't just in the overlords favor even as the heroes did things like split up and leaving open group crypt dragons alive.

The thing that bothers me the most is that the quest didn't care. The game could have gotten even longer if the overlord would have griefed players by playing even just more annoying. There really should be another winning condition on the tainted quests than knock each hero out. It promotes turtling for the heroes and staying away from monsters and objectives to heal and regroup all the time.

edit: Any other 3 cost healer card and Tomble would have died easily but FREE change of so many blank dice defence dice is just to strong I think. Playing a coop or Road to legends and the monk will never die as there isn't a clever overlord to cheese weaknesses and exploit hero behavior. At least that is what I think.
 
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Sebastian H.
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Wouldnt it have been a better strategy to move the heroes away from tomble with dark charm than to straight up attack him? If the heroes died a lot, you should have had access to the trap cards to prevent them from moving back afterwards.
 
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Paul
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Glad the cards were being played right- I didn't mean to insult.

There's no denying that Tomble makes a really strong Monk as he sidesteps one of its biggest soft spots (no armor). Having faced monk tomble before, I recommend 2 things:

-pierce: the shambling colossus (also in CtR) has a nice ability that pierces 1 for each defense die rolled. That does well against tomble who likes to roll many dice (and it isn't actually "pierce", so baron cloak doesn't block it )

-kncokback/lash/throw: Use one of your first monsters (ynfernael hulk, ettin, bone horror, hellhound, etc) to either move tomble away from other heroes or move heroes away from tomble. THEN beat the snot out of him. The nice thing about this is you don't have to rely on your deck (though dark charm can work, too).
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Erik Kjellberg
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DelphiDie wrote:
Wouldnt it have been a better strategy to move the heroes away from tomble with dark charm than to straight up attack him? If the heroes died a lot, you should have had access to the trap cards to prevent them from moving back afterwards.


Yes It would have worked with luck and was tried but to get the setup of not having to overcome a by the book marshal which almost never fail the warrior needed to be killed first, which would require precious monster attacks and trap cards which rely on "eye" is useless against Tomble as he have high eye and as a healer class any condition except stun is nearly useless. He was alone many times but by then most monster attacks were spent as well as cards. Monsters with 2 dice which often have a blue and a yellow and don't hit that hard and on most maps the reinforce can either not reach the heroes if the progressed a little bit if spawned at entrance or near begining or if spawned at the overlords end phase. Also many maps have terrible reinforce like only one goblin, zombie or other nearly useless monster (2 speed monsters are a joke when they are single space and spawn behind the heroes). The thing is that it really came down to attack tomble with full force when he had 2 or 3 dice (3 when warrior was alive, 2 when the other healer was alive and the warrior dead). Both were tried many times as the heores made nearly nil progress for too long but as the quest went on they simply didn't need to hurry and it was often better for them to just try and heal and rest than make progress.

zaltyre wrote:
Glad the cards were being played right- I didn't mean to insult.

There's no denying that Tomble makes a really strong Monk as he sidesteps one of its biggest soft spots (no armor). Having faced monk tomble before, I recommend 2 things:

-pierce: the shambling colossus (also in CtR) has a nice ability that pierces 1 for each defense die rolled. That does well against tomble who likes to roll many dice (and it isn't actually "pierce", so baron cloak doesn't block it )

-kncokback/lash/throw: Use one of your first monsters (ynfernael hulk, ettin, bone horror, hellhound, etc) to either move tomble away from other heroes or move heroes away from tomble. THEN beat the snot out of him. The nice thing about this is you don't have to rely on your deck (though dark charm can work, too).


No insult taken sorry if I sound aggressive I just try to be as informative as possible.

I own every expansion and yes it would help to use those kind of monsters but thing is that unless they are the reinforce heroes can either outright kill them on the first or second turn or prep for when they are coming from opening doors or doing other things. I would say that the plauge worm would be the best as their burrow cannot be blocked, they are great at suprise attacks and fairly tanky but to be able to bring it all into place just to kill a single 3 exp card require painfully much consideration not to mention luck as all dices can fail (attack, card etc). The colussus are nice as well as the new priests but the colusses are not that hard to kill and as they are melee and not many, often have to charge into the heroes and will likely die rather quickly unless overlord have defence cards ready (but a blood rage on a colussus should hurt even tomble considerbly much). Also The bone horrors (really just horror as only the red one can do it) fishing technique is funny as hell but requires good follow up.

All I'm saying is that:
- After playing the monk for a couple of quests he seems to be considerbly stronger than any regular healer. Not at all impossible but simply strong as hell .
- Marshal should not have free high bookstat when playing as casters at the same time as they introduce lots of quests where the heroes have to die indroduce a card that prevents the warrior from being knocked out if he kills a simple monster (staying on 1 hp thing really seems cheap).
- Also I don't like the new expansions tainted system nor the quest design. I was however positivly suprised when we played the first quest in Chain that rust and there wasn't much room (on the map) for the overlord to grief (running away with liutentant or hide behind respawns etc) and a kind of turn limiter with the shirnes but the mission after that and back to the turling as the heroes did in almost every quest in Mist of bilehall.

We played alot of quests but afterwards I can just imagine insane combinations the heroes can do if they really want to and doesn't just play what they feel like playing
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