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Subject: How do you start debate? rss

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Andrew Griffiths
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Bexleyheath
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Whenever i play this for the first time with a new group, it always takes a few games for people to start off the debate...
I tend to end up leading with "Well, I'm a villager" or similar to get things going, but this tends to put me on a back foot from the word go...
How do you make this more even?
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Ben
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I say, "I was a werewolf. If nobody switched me, you should vote for me." That usually gets people talking, especially if Minion and Tanner are involved.
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Jonathan Takagi
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Most of our conversations start with "Who touched someone else's card tonight?"
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Clive Jones

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I'll often start with something like "Who's the Troublemaker?"

Assuming I'm playing with people who know me at all, and know I'm familiar with ONUW, will then start wondering why I'm asking and whether or not they should answer. And so the intrigue begins.

It really helps if there's more than one experienced player in the group, though. And one of the charms of ONUW is that a new player needn't feel daunted if playing with a bunch of people who already know the game.


I still fondly remember a game with five experienced players and two newbies. One of the newbies quickly admitted to being the Seer, but wisely kept quiet about what they'd seen. After a couple of minutes they explained that player A was a Werewolf. So we killed player A. It turned out they genuinely had been the seer, but had actually seen that player B was a Villager. Feeling this was a bit boring, they instead decided to frame a player they suspected.

Neat. I'd never thought of doing that. New players can bring new ideas. (-8
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Carl G
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We go in order of night actions. You can still jump in and lie, but then we can try to track what went where. Anything sketchy at the end gets debated. But we also tend to play with 8-12 people, so we need some semblance of order to begin.
 
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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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clivej wrote:
I'll often start with something like "Who's the Troublemaker?"

If you want more information, a better line is "I was the troublemaker and switched X and Y."
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Geoff Conn
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a1bert wrote:
clivej wrote:
I'll often start with something like "Who's the Troublemaker?"

If you want more information, a better line is "I was the troublemaker and switched X and Y."


One of my favorite lies...

Anways, I often start with "Alright, who moved cards?".
 
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Steven Albano
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If somebody doesn't say anything initially, I go, "Well, does anyone want to say anything?"

Pause. Pause.

If nothing, "Well, I'm the troublemaker and switch you two."

 
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Clive Jones

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a1bert wrote:
clivej wrote:
I'll often start with something like "Who's the Troublemaker?"

If you want more information, a better line is "I was the troublemaker and switched X and Y."

Not necessarily.

"Who's the Troublemaker?" is a question which gives you two useful avenues.

If someone claims they are, you can say "No you're not, I was." and a lot of people will believe you laid a trap for the other person, whether you did or not.

If nobody claims they are, you can move on to "Well, someone definitely was, because I was the Insomniac and I've been changed to something other than the Robber." Which, again, is credible even if not true.

Of course, once the other players get a bit more advanced, you need to find some more sophisticated gambits.
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Clyde W
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"I was the lone wolf and I saw Seer in the middle."
 
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Andrew Griffiths
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clivej wrote:


If nobody claims they are, you can move on to "Well, someone definitely was, because I was the Insomniac and I've been changed to something other than the Robber." Which, again, is credible even if not true.
[/q]

So this is the thing - all of these suggestions rely on YOU taking the initiative, which in some way or another puts you on a back foot... (either through lying or telling the truth)
 
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Clive Jones

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Firstly, it's arguably polite for experienced players to get the ball rolling when there are new players.

Secondly, asking a question gives away little. (If you're good at it, and don't always ask the same question for the same reason, it need give away nothing.)

Thirdly, you needn't actually give away very much even if you make a statement.

Finally, once people have realised that they need to be wary, being the first to speak can make you seem honest. (-8<
 
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Andrew Griffiths
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clivej wrote:
Firstly, it's arguably polite for experienced players to get the ball rolling when there are new players.

Secondly, asking a question gives away little. (If you're good at it, and don't always ask the same question for the same reason, it need give away nothing.)

Thirdly, you needn't actually give away very much even if you make a statement.

Finally, once people have realised that they need to be wary, being the first to speak can make you seem honest. (-8<


All fair points
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Thomas with Subtrendy
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It really depends on what roles are in play- however, it can also be beneficial to hide information about yourself.

One strategy I enjoy is when I'm the only Mason. At dawn, one of the first questions I might ask is "Who were the masons?" After a bit of silence, the werewolves may see the gap and claim they were the masons. Sometimes this will out them both, if for instance a seer had seen one of their cards, at which point we need to simply vote them both.

But yeah, and card moving/ looking at role is best to start with.

Another strategy I like is when I have a suspicion about someone and am the Troublemaker/know the Troublemaker was in the middle. I'll say to the person I'm suspicious of that I switched cards with them and another person. I'll then ask the other person who they were, and they are sometimes honest- for instance, they might say they were a villager. The old Werewolf will then realize that their role is now changed, and rat out the former villager. I've had games end within seconds that way. Kind of sleazy, but pretty effective!

But yeah, the best thing to do is to try to take whatever information you know- be it detailed like feeling the Thing poke you, or vague like simply knowing what roles are currently in play- and adapting a strategy to fit them. There are a ton of combinations in this game, especially with expansions thrown in, so the best you can do sometimes is have a working knowledge of each role's abilities and timing- because after all, timing is important to take into account as well.
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Clive Jones

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Something which keeps ONOW fresh is that any bluff you can think of is capable of becoming a double-bluff. (-8

For example, a werewolf can ask "Who were the masons?" before the mason does. And in your scenario where the Werewolves are claiming to be two Masons and the Seer contradicts them, just accuse the Seer of being the second Werewolf. Or just one Werewolf can claim to be a Mason. Or one Werewolf can even claim "I was a Mason, but I'm not going to say yet whether there was a second."

Similarly, I'll often not risk outing myself as having started the night as a Werewolf, even if someone claims to be the Troublemaker and claims to have swapped me. And if I start the night as Insomniac and end the night as Werewolf, maybe I'll announce "I started the night as Werewolf, but my card's nowhere near where I left it, so I bet someone swapped me in the night." Now the Troublemaker will implicate the wrong person...
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Thomas with Subtrendy
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clivej wrote:
Something which keeps ONOW fresh is that any bluff you can think of is capable of becoming a double-bluff. (-8

For example, a werewolf can ask "Who were the masons?" before the mason does. And in your scenario where the Werewolves are claiming to be two Masons and the Seer contradicts them, just accuse the Seer of being the second Werewolf. Or just one Werewolf can claim to be a Mason. Or one Werewolf can even claim "I was a Mason, but I'm not going to say yet whether there was a second."

Similarly, I'll often not risk outing myself as having started the night as a Werewolf, even if someone claims to be the Troublemaker and claims to have swapped me. And if I start the night as Insomniac and end the night as Werewolf, maybe I'll announce "I started the night as Werewolf, but my card's nowhere near where I left it, so I bet someone swapped me in the night." Now the Troublemaker will implicate the wrong person...


Of course! My examples become increasingly convoluted the more experience the players have as they begin to see circles within circles. These strategies are far from foolproof- but they are a decent way at alleviating that awkward silence at the beginning of a debate.
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