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Subject: ACA health insurance is 10% cheaper than employer sponsored insurance rss

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Shawn Fox
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http://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/alfresco/publicatio...

This is something I've been pointing out since I started using the ACA exchange. I pay quite a bit less for my insurance that I get off the ACA exchange than I did when I was working for IBM (based on the cost of COBRA insurance I was offered after leaving IBM). I've made similar comparisons with other people who have changed jobs and been offered COBRA and only once was the COBRA insurance cheaper than what I pay on the ACA.
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sfox wrote:
http://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/alfresco/publicatio...

This is something I've been pointing out since I started using the ACA exchange. I pay quite a bit less for my insurance that I get off the ACA exchange than I did when I was working for IBM (based on the cost of COBRA insurance I was offered after leaving IBM). I've made similar comparisons with other people who have changed jobs and been offered COBRA and only once was the COBRA insurance cheaper than what I pay on the ACA.


How much money do you make now compared to working at IBM?
 
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Andrew Bartosh

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IME, Cobra is fucking brutal. Like holy hell is it rough to transition from company insurance to Cobra just because of the actual cost. Only had it come up for me and my wife a time or two, but we were pretty floored.
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Mac Mcleod
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sfox wrote:
http://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/alfresco/publicatio...

This is something I've been pointing out since I started using the ACA exchange. I pay quite a bit less for my insurance that I get off the ACA exchange than I did when I was working for IBM (based on the cost of COBRA insurance I was offered after leaving IBM). I've made similar comparisons with other people who have changed jobs and been offered COBRA and only once was the COBRA insurance cheaper than what I pay on the ACA.


Yes, without the supplement, my Cobra was $500 and my ACA was $380 for the same coverage (same company in fact). The supplement lowered the ACA further.
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non sequitur
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Does this account for your tax burden to supplement the ACA?

(Not that I disagree with the idea, I think our health care system should serve people who can't afford it, but I'm also a fan of realistic measurements.)
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jeremy cobert
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sfox wrote:
I've made similar comparisons with other people who have changed jobs and been offered COBRA and only once was the COBRA insurance cheaper than what I pay on the ACA.


So the ACA is cheaper the COBRA , duh. It's cheaper to get a subsidy from the tax payers then pay for you insurance.

You can save even more by going on medicaid ! why work, when you can take from others.
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Shawn Fox
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TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
http://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/alfresco/publicatio...

This is something I've been pointing out since I started using the ACA exchange. I pay quite a bit less for my insurance that I get off the ACA exchange than I did when I was working for IBM (based on the cost of COBRA insurance I was offered after leaving IBM). I've made similar comparisons with other people who have changed jobs and been offered COBRA and only once was the COBRA insurance cheaper than what I pay on the ACA.


How much money do you make now compared to working at IBM?

I'm not sure how that is relevant, but I make around twice what I was making with IBM.
 
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Shawn Fox
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jeremycobert wrote:
sfox wrote:
I've made similar comparisons with other people who have changed jobs and been offered COBRA and only once was the COBRA insurance cheaper than what I pay on the ACA.


So the ACA is cheaper the COBRA , duh. It's cheaper to get a subsidy from the tax payers then pay for you insurance.

You can save even more by going on medicaid ! why work, when you can take from others.

What the hell are you talking about, I don't get any subsides.
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Shawn Fox
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AndrewRogue wrote:
IME, Cobra is fucking brutal. Like holy hell is it rough to transition from company insurance to Cobra just because of the actual cost. Only had it come up for me and my wife a time or two, but we were pretty floored.

Yeah, COBRA is the actual cost that the corporation pays for the insurance on a per person basis. They get to add a small administrative cost on top of what they pay, but basically the COBRA cost is what you'd be paying if you aren't getting any subsidy from your employer.
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jeremy cobert
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sfox wrote:
What the hell are you talking about, I don't get any subsides.


Where do you think the money for the ACA plans comes from ? The tax payers are financing your healthcare

or maybe you think is comes from

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Shawn Fox
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bjlillo wrote:
The title of your thread is wrong, but that's not surprising since it's the information that confirmed your bias. To get the cost of the insurance, you'd also have to consider the deductible which is incredibly high on the ACA plans. This paper was about premiums only.

Wrong, I guess you didn't bother to read the PDF or didn't understand the meaning of "actuarial value". The comparison is based on the full cost of premiums plus usage which would obviously include deductibles and other associated costs.
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Shawn Fox
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jeremycobert wrote:
sfox wrote:
What the hell are you talking about, I don't get any subsides.


Where do you think the money for the ACA plans comes from ? The tax payers are financing your healthcare

No, that isn't how it works. I pay the full costs, I am not receiving any subsidies as my income is too high. Clearly you have no idea how the ACA works, maybe that is why you are so opposed to it.
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Tom McVey
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AndrewRogue wrote:
IME, Cobra is fucking brutal. Like holy hell is it rough to transition from company insurance to Cobra just because of the actual cost. Only had it come up for me and my wife a time or two, but we were pretty floored.


COBRA's probably not as diversified a risk pool as the ACA, which might explain some of the discrepancy - healthier people are more likely to drop COBRA coverage between employers.
 
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Drew
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No, I'm sorry. The subject header is demonstrably untrue. Is it true for some people? Possibly. Across the board. Not on your life. And I know this from experience.
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J.D. Hall
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I certainly support the ACA as an interim step to single payer, but personally I don't see how ACA can beat my insurance. A whooping $78 a month ($1,500 deductible) that covers my wife and my college kid. Vision insurance adds another $20 a month, dental $12. Yep, $110 a month with BCBS.

I'm certain it's cheaper for some folks, more expensive for others. It's a stop-gap measure for certain. But so far, no one has come up with realistic options to it besides single-payer, and the increase in taxes will daunt many a taxpayer.
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sfox wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
The title of your thread is wrong, but that's not surprising since it's the information that confirmed your bias. To get the cost of the insurance, you'd also have to consider the deductible which is incredibly high on the ACA plans. This paper was about premiums only.

Wrong, I guess you didn't bother to read the PDF or didn't understand the meaning of "actuarial value". The comparison is based on the full cost of premiums plus usage which would obviously include deductibles and other associated costs.

To expand on that, here is the explanation of "actuarial value".
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Based upon my poor understanding of history, science, and ethics...
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I'm doing this from an unfamiliar device. I lost three links.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-02/texas-health-insura...

This one sums most of it up.

Brace yourself.

Some Texas insurers are asking for big rate hikes. Others aren't but plan to leave the Texas market. Blue Cross of Texas is spending 1.26 for every dollar taken in.
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Wait! They're offering insurance now? What is this, some sort of diversification ploy?






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Shawn Fox
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tmcvey wrote:
AndrewRogue wrote:
IME, Cobra is fucking brutal. Like holy hell is it rough to transition from company insurance to Cobra just because of the actual cost. Only had it come up for me and my wife a time or two, but we were pretty floored.


COBRA's probably not as diversified a risk pool as the ACA, which might explain some of the discrepancy - healthier people are more likely to drop COBRA coverage between employers.

COBRA isn't an insurance, it is just a law which requires that corporations allow employees to continue using their insurance for at least 18 months after the employee leaves the company. The law requires that corporations must provide the insurance at the same price the corporation is paying for it. The cost of COBRA insurance is just the normal full cost of the insurance without any subsidy from the corporation.
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Shawn Fox
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Drew1365 wrote:
No, I'm sorry. The subject header is demonstrably untrue. Is it true for some people? Possibly. Across the board. Not on your life. And I know this from experience.

What part of it isn't true? Are you just trying to use an extremely narrow interpretation of the title so that you can claim it isn't technically true in every case or what? The point is, that on average, you can get insurance off the ACA exchange for around 10% below what employers in the area pay for insurance. In some cases you can probably get much more than 10% less, in others you likely have to pay much more. Like in my example, my insurance cost from the ACA exchange was nearly 25% less compared to what IBM was paying.

A couple of examples to the contrary doesn't make the conclusion wrong any more than a few days of record breaking cold says anything about the long term trend of global warming.
 
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Shawn Fox
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remorseless1 wrote:
I certainly support the ACA as an interim step to single payer, but personally I don't see how ACA can beat my insurance. A whooping $78 a month ($1,500 deductible) that covers my wife and my college kid. Vision insurance adds another $20 a month, dental $12. Yep, $110 a month with BCBS.

I'm certain it's cheaper for some folks, more expensive for others. It's a stop-gap measure for certain. But so far, no one has come up with realistic options to it besides single-payer, and the increase in taxes will daunt many a taxpayer.

I assume you mean that you are paying $78/month and your employer is covering the rest? Just because you only see the price as $78/month doesn't mean your insurance is cheaper, your employer still sees the total cost of your employment which is wages + benefits. If they were not subsidizing your insurance you'd be getting that money via higher pay, so yes, you are still paying the full costs, not $78/month as you claim.

I'd rather see single payer myself, but I do think a market based system can work, as long as the rules are structured in a way which forces insurance companies to compete on pricing rather than competing on who can do the best job of selecting customers who aren't going to use insurance. I definitely do not believe that a pure free market style system is ever going to produce the outcome that most people want.
 
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Drew
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sfox wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
No, I'm sorry. The subject header is demonstrably untrue. Is it true for some people? Possibly. Across the board. Not on your life. And I know this from experience.

What part of it isn't true?


This part: "ACA health insurance is 10% cheaper than employer sponsored insurance"

 
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Andy Szymas
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Drew1365 wrote:
No, I'm sorry. The subject header is demonstrably untrue. Is it true for some people? Possibly. Across the board. Not on your life. And I know this from experience.


I'd be curious how you have 'experience' about insurance prices 'across the board.' Maybe you mean you have an 'anecdote' about insurance prices 'that you personally pay'.
 
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Shawn Fox
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Drew1365 wrote:
sfox wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
No, I'm sorry. The subject header is demonstrably untrue. Is it true for some people? Possibly. Across the board. Not on your life. And I know this from experience.

What part of it isn't true?


This part: "ACA health insurance is 10% cheaper than employer sponsored insurance"

So the answer is clear, especially as you cut out most of my response in your reply. You are being pedantic and in your pedantic interpretation you are correct. Congratulations, you win the internetz!
 
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So a better measure would be out-of-pocket costs (in full) for health care at different income brackets, right?

Is data for that readily available, or do people just want to say "nuh uh!" louder than one another?
 
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