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Conflict of Heroes: Eastern Front – Solo Expansion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Flanking confusion rss

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Craig M.
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Winchester
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Hello. I am fairly new to the CoH Atb ruleset so it's possible I am just not seeing something that may be obvious here. In regards to the solo rules, I am having confusion between the terms:

1) move into target's flank (this one seems obvious to me as it appears the AI moves into the 3 flank hexes of the unit (two side ones/rear)

2) move towards enemy flank (this is one of the parameters while going thru a normal move). Does this mean any flank hex (the 3 flanking hexes immediately adjacent an unit AND the many hexes behind the unit where one can fire a flanking shot?

Any clarification is appreciated. Thanks.
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Russ Williams
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PenCapChew wrote:
Hello. I am fairly new to the CoH Atb ruleset so it's possible I am just not seeing something that may be obvious here. In regards to the solo rules, I am having confusion between the terms:

1) move into target's flank (this one seems obvious to me as it appears the AI moves into the 3 flank hexes of the unit (two side ones/rear)

2) move towards enemy flank (this is one of the parameters while going thru a normal move). Does this mean any flank hex (the 3 flanking hexes immediately adjacent an unit AND the many hexes behind the unit where one can fire a flanking shot?

Any clarification is appreciated. Thanks.

I always supposed that this kind of AI instruction means your 2nd interpretation (i.e. toward any of the many green non-arc-of-fire hexes in Figure 8 of rule section 6.1 of Awakening the Bear base rules), not just literally the 3 flank hexes adjacent to the target. (But I am not certain.)
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Lewis Karl
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I have always interpreted flank to mean being in a position to fire on the enemies rear and as a consequence, not being in the fire zone of the enemy unit. You don't have to be adjacent to an enemy unit to be flanking it. Thus, when the rules suggest moving into the enemies flank (if it can't get closer), as in the Move Towards rules, that means getting behind the unit so you have a tactical advantage, namely the enemy will have to pivot or move out of your fire zone or risk being fired upon from the rear in the next turn.
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Trevor Wilson
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I have always assumed "flank" to be any area not in the field of fire arc extending out from the front three hexes. So move into / towards the enemies flank would be a move into any hex not in the firing arc (front) of the enemy unit - which, as mentioned above, does not have to be the physical hex next to the unit in question.
 
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Lewis Karl
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Also, the other requirements of the applicable rule apply. With Move Towards as an example, the AI will not move farther away into the flank. Instead only moving into the flank, if it can't get closer by other rule criteria and it at least stays the same distance from the target.
 
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Craig M.
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That's how I was generally interpreting the order "move towards enemy flank" as to be any of the non arc of fire hexes. It seems to me that the three normal flank hexes adjacent to the unit will be closer for the AI to move towards than a flanking hex that isn't adjacent to unit. Confusion also stemmed on how the last part of the normal move condition could occur (randomly determine which hexes the AI will move via die roll). I took a picture of my current situation in hopes of a better explanation.
[ImageID=https://boardgamegeek.com/image/3185985/pencapchew]

I drew a command order card #55. The first order that could be carried out was the second to last one, "Largest group of AI's closest to a Mission Objective or Spent unit. Since the German's are the AI and they don't go after mission objectives, the target for the move is the spent unit. A black arrow is pointing at the first AI I wanted to select for a "move towards" order. The A and B represent the possible hexes since it's the only way the AI can decrease the distance to it's target unit. The blue F stands for "flank" and its the flank hexes adjacent to the unit. The yellow F represents a "flank" that is NOT adjacent to the unit. I only labeled one for the sake of the diagram and are aware there are many more. Here is my reasoning when applying the normal move hierarchy:

1) the AI will move to a hex that is a fewer number of hexes away
from the Target, then [Hexes A and B represent the only two hexes that reduce the distance of the German AI to it's target spent unit. It must go to either A or B)

2) the AI will move out of a Fire Zone, then (Hex A is in a fire zone of the Soviet spent unit since you can trace LOS along hex spines using the least restrictive terrain. Hex B is a clear LOS from Soviet spent unit and is also a Fire Zone hex. The AI cannot break the tie via this parameter so the next order is looked at.)

3) the AI will move into the highest Defense Modifier (DM) hex, then
(Hex A is in what I determined to be open terrain. Even if it was considered plowed field terrain both still have a DM of 0. Hex B is open terrain with a DM of 0 as well. We continue on to step 4.)

4) the AI will move towards an enemy's flank, then

(This is the part of the order where I was confused. If we consider "towards an enemy's flank" to be a flank hex adjacent to the Soviet unit represented by the blue F then Hex A would be where the German AI moves since it's the closest hex to a blue flank hex. I don't see where a non-adjacent flank hex to Soviet unit would come into play in this move hierarchy.)

5) randomly determine which of the hexes the AI will move into by
assigning each hex a number and rolling 1d6.
(This last part of hierarchy also confuses me since I don't know you could get to this point or randomly determing the hex for the AI via a "normal move" since you always move closer to a target. An adjacent flank hex (Blue F) appears to me to be always closer to the target unit than a non-adjacent flank. Also you don't have the additional restrictions a "low risk move" entails.)


Hopefully this further explanation demonstrates my thought process on executing a normal move order with a group of units. I haven't even tried moving the other AI units since I can't seem to get past where to move the mentioned AI unit in the above example. I am guessing A, but the aforementioned points still cause me some confusion on the matter. I am aware of Rule 42 (nice literary reference by the way) but am hesitant to use it since I bought the solo expansion for the primary purpose of having the Athena AI surprising and demolishing me.
 
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Lewis Karl
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You are done at step 4. Move into A. You are following the rules.

I hope you are not agonizing over this as I know some players do. I understand wanting to understand the rules completely, and that's a good thing, and I understand (at first) wanting to ensure the AI makes the correct move.

But, in all honesty, and I've said this many times before, it doesn't really matter all that much. When I play, and come to a situation like this where I don't remember all the rules, sometimes I just play what makes sense. For example, the first thing I did to respond to your latest question was look at the image. I didn't read your detailed text describing your thought process (beyond the part mentioning it was Move Towards and the spent unit was the target). Immediately it was obvious that A was the best move.

Then I read your step by step rule analysis and confirmed indeed it was A. Hey, someone might come along and point out where I am wrong (because I am hastily typing this at the office) and it is B. But it doesn't matter. The game will play out well either way.

But its good to learn and understand the rules. Then just concentrate on playing and allow yourself to make those "happy little accidents" as Bob Ross use to say on his TV painting show.
 
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Craig M.
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Not quite agonizing over decisions with the AI. I attribute it more to being OCD than anything. Everyone who has commented on the thread has come to the same conclusions which has helped clarify it better. Ideally I would like to see the game designer comment for confirmation but that's just me. I am really liking this system so far. Thank you all for your help!
 
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James Palmer
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Yes, the consensus here is correct. Moving towards the flank does not necessarily mean moving towards a space adjacent to the target, but it does mean that you do not move farther away from the target.
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