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Hands in the Sea» Forums » Rules

Subject: Reinforcement via Sea rss

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Chris Clarke
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EDIT:

Syracuse uncontrolled. Carthage controls Rhegium and Italy Sea Zone, so, in fact, all supply is cut off from Italy. A battle is already in progress in Messana.
Rome cannot reinforce "by land" as there is no adjacent in supply location.
But by the RAW I would say Rome can reinforce "by sea" as the Sicily Sea Zone is uncontrolled. Rome could play any ship or sword bearing location from Italy (it being the only area on the board that is in supply). This seems counter-intuitive as the Sicily Sea Zone itself can't "trace supply" to a Roman source.
 
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Daniel Berger
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aram12 wrote:
Sicily uncontrolled. Carthage controls Rhegium and Italy Sea Zone, so, in fact, all supply is cut off from Italy. A battle is already in progress in Messana.
Rome cannot reinforce "by land" as there is no adjacent in supply location.
But by the RAW I would say Rome can reinforce "by sea" as the Sicily Sea Zone is uncontrolled. Rome could play any ship or sword bearing location from Italy (it being the only area on the board that is in supply). This seems counter-intuitive as the Sicily Sea Zone itself can't "trace supply" to a Roman source.

I'm not sure what you're asking. Messana still needs to connect to a supply source somehow to be in supply. So, it would have to trace to Syracuse (assuming the Roman player controls it), either by land through Catana or across the Sicily sea zone.

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S. R.
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I am guessing the OP meant "Syracuse uncontrolled", not Sicily.

The situation is this:
- Messena is part of Sicily
- Sicily is within the Sicilian Sea Zone
- The Sicilian Sea Zone is uncontrolled
- Syracuse is uncontrolled
- Messena is controlled by the Roman player
- Rome is controlled by the Roman player
- The Italian Sea zone is controlled by the Carthaginian player
- The Roman player cannot provide supply via routes on land

The rules state that the state of the Sea Zone in which the town/city is located is important, not the Sea Zone in which the supply-providing town/city is located. So, as per rules, Messena is in supply, as its Sea Zone is uncontrolled, even if the Sea Zone of its supplier is enemy-controlled.

What the OP is saying is that it is unintuitive that locations can be in supply if there is no free route over which uninterrupted supply could be traced. Here (logically speaking), Carthage could enact an embargo on Rome, as it controls the Italian Sea Zone. This way, no ship could leave this Sea Zone, and therefore could not even enter the Sicilian one. But the way the rules are written, Carthage could only block supply ships from ENTERING a harbor (i.e. if the Sea Zone is enemy-controlled), not from LEAVING a harbor. Thematically, it makes not too much sense...


Oh god.
I got that completely wrong, missing the passus in the rules.
Mea culpa. I'll shut up now...
 
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Chris Clarke
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Let me clarify.

Let's continue the example. If Rome wins the battle in Messana, Messana wouldn't be in supply as it can't trace supply to a supply source. I think that's pretty clear in the rules...

4.4 – Supply
In order to use a Location card for an action, you must control that location (i.e., have a cube or disc there), and you
must be able to trace a line of supply to a Supply Point. A location can trace a line of supply over any number of
regular land connections and across any number of Sea Zones, except for those that are enemy-controlled. Supply can
be traced into or through unoccupied areas, friendly or uncontrolled Sea Zones, and areas where a battle is taking
place.

Thus Messana and, in fact, every other location outside of Italy, is cut off from Roman supply. Got it.

The question is that of Reinforcement. In this case, while the battle at Messana is occurring, the rules seem to indicate that the only requirement for "by sea" reinforcement is that the Sea zone of that land battle is not enemy controlled even if that sea zone itself is "out of supply". I wanted to confirm this was the case, Daniel, as I still wasn't sure after you answered my questions in Clarification needed for supply and Reinforce a Land Battle.
 
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Daniel Berger
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Chris, I'm confused by your confusion. Messana cannot be reinforced because it cannot trace to a supply point.

Please see 5.2.2 Reinforce a Land Battle. Note that I clarified that to be "in supply" is to be able to trace to a supply point.

All that being said, it sounds like Rome is already toast in whatever game this is.

 
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Chris Clarke
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I thought your clarification only referred to reinforcing "by land". Now I understand that the new Important Note in 5.2.2 leads us to the following:

Can reinforce a battle with swords if there is a valid supply path from the location of battle to a friendly supply source.

Can reinforce a battle with ships if the location's sea zone is not enemy controlled AND there is a valid supply path from the location of battle to a friendly supply source.
Hypothetical Examples:
Starting control for both sides. Battle in Olbia. Italy Sea zone controlled by Carthage. Rome cannot reinforce.

Starting control for both sides. Battle in Pisa. Italy Sea zone controlled by Carthage. Rome can reinforce only with swords.

Starting control for both sides except Rome also controls Syracuse. Battle in Tyndaris. Italy Sea zone controlled by Carthage. Rome can reinforce with swords and ships.
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Ingólfur Valsson
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aram12 wrote:

Starting control for both sides. Battle in Olbia. Italy Sea zone controlled by Carthage. Rome cannot reinforce.


Rome as a supply point can't reinforce, but Roman player could if he controls Syracuse right?

Syracuse -> Sicily Sea Zone -> Africa Sea Zone -> Corsica Sardinia Sea Zone -> Olbia.

Am I wrong?

But when you say starting control you are assuming Syracuse is neutral I guess.

aram12 wrote:

Starting control for both sides. Battle in Pisa. Italy Sea zone controlled by Carthage. Rome can reinforce only with swords.


I say correct.

aram12 wrote:

Starting control for both sides except Rome also controls Syracuse. Battle in Tyndaris. Italy Sea zone controlled by Carthage. Rome can reinforce with swords and ships.


I say correct, and can now see you assume Syracuse neutral in first example.
 
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