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Subject: Does sinking a ship remove it's damage? rss

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Joe fakelastnameson
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Does sinking a ship remove it's damage?

In almost all cases it seems like the damage would clear when you take the repair action, but I ask in specific reference to one damage card

Spoiler (click to reveal)
One of the damage cards says pay 3 gold to remove this card.
Normally, even if your sunk ship had damage, it would automatically be removed with the repair action. But that damage card seems to be an exception because there's an associated cost.


Its weird thematically to think a damage card would persist through the ship sinking.
 
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Becq Starforged
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The rules state:
Quote:
Repair
Repair any of your ships at a location with the repair symbol. To repair, refresh all exhausted upgrade tokens and dismiss all damage cards. Repairing costs nothing unless a damage card says otherwise. If you repair, you may also rebuild any sunken ships of yours and place them in your home harbor.

My read is that if you did a repair action when your ship was sunk, you would remove all of the damage cards from the sunken ship, then rebuild it (ie, place the ship model back into the harbor). I can't speak to that particular card, but my guess would be that it depends on the specific wording:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
If the card just says something like "You can pay 3 gold to remove this card", then that sounds like an alternate way to repair your ship. I.e., you can either perform a repair action, which removes all damage cards (for free), or you can pay 3 gold to remove that card (without needing to use a repair action). So in the case of a sunken ship, the repair action that you use to rebuild the ship would also remove the card for free.

If it says that you have to pay 3 gold to remove the card when taking a repair action, then that's different and sounds like an exception to the normal repar/rebuild rules. And I agree, it seems odd that building a new ship would cost more based on how the hold ship was sunk. I would be strongly tempted to houserule it ... assuming the designers don't weigh in with an answer.

By the way, is this one of the basic damage cards (ie, not one added by an unlock box)? My understanding is that the (basic) damage cards aren't spoilers; they've released pictures of some of them.
 
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Joe fakelastnameson
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It is one of the basic damage cards. I don't have it in front of me though to post the specific wording.

 
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David desJardins
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It seems obvious to me that if you REBUILD a ship then it enters with no damage on it.
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Becq Starforged
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DaviddesJ wrote:
It seems obvious to me that if you REBUILD a ship then it enters with no damage on it.

That makes the most sense, yes. But since I haven't seen the card, I can't say. If, for example, the card represents a combination of jury-rigged repairs and a debt incurred to make those emergency repairs, then the debt might still need to be repaid even though the ship was lost.

You may have seen the card and know otherwise, of course.
 
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David desJardins
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I don't think seeing the card will help you much, but here it is:

Spoiler (click to reveal)


(Not locked at start, but I don't think looking through the decks before playing is in the spirit of the game, so use your discretion whether you want to look.)
 
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Tim Stack
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Yes. Even though the ship has the same name, it's not like you are rebuilding a damaged ship that needs to be repaired as well as rebuilt. The original sank. Using the rebuild action, you are building an entirely brand new ship from scratch and it sets sail under the name of the old ship.
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JR Honeycutt
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shadysjunk wrote:
Does sinking a ship remove it's damage?

In almost all cases it seems like the damage would clear when you take the repair action, but I ask in specific reference to one damage card

Spoiler (click to reveal)
One of the damage cards says pay 3 gold to remove this card.
Normally, even if your sunk ship had damage, it would automatically be removed with the repair action. But that damage card seems to be an exception because there's an associated cost.


Its weird thematically to think a damage card would persist through the ship sinking.


Yeah, new ships are fresh and undamaged.
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Ken Shows
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How does this card interact with the Port structure? Would it automatically be repaired at no cost, or would it require extra gold to fix?
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Becq Starforged
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kshows wrote:
How does this card interact with the Port structure? Would it automatically be repaired at no cost, or would it require extra gold to fix?

Based on the card image that David linked, it looks to me as though
Spoiler (click to reveal)
it costs a repair action AND 3 gold to discard that particular card.
 
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Matt S
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kshows wrote:
How does this card interact with the Port structure? Would it automatically be repaired at no cost, or would it require extra gold to fix?


My understanding would be that the Port will allow you to fix this without the repair action but would still require the gold cost.
 
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JR Honeycutt
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mcs1213 wrote:
kshows wrote:
How does this card interact with the Port structure? Would it automatically be repaired at no cost, or would it require extra gold to fix?


My understanding would be that the Port will allow you to fix this without the repair action but would still require the gold cost.


Correct. The card supercedes any structures. However, if your ship sinks, this damage card goes away just like the others.

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AJ Harris
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jayahre wrote:
mcs1213 wrote:
kshows wrote:
How does this card interact with the Port structure? Would it automatically be repaired at no cost, or would it require extra gold to fix?


My understanding would be that the Port will allow you to fix this without the repair action but would still require the gold cost.


Correct. The card supercedes any structures. However, if your ship sinks, this damage card goes away just like the others.



JR, you obviously know better than I do, but where do the rules say that the damage cards go away when you sink? I agree that's how I was interpreting it for quite some time, but now that I have my copy in hand and am rereading it, the Sinking section on pg. 10 only says to "remove its upgrades and...return any goods in the hold to the supply." Sure, it makes sense to me that the third damage card would essentially wipe away the other two, but I'm missing that in the rule book.
 
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David desJardins
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much0gust0 wrote:
JR, you obviously know better than I do, but where do the rules say that the damage cards go away when you sink?


I think it's just supposed to be obvious. If your ship is at the bottom of the ocean, it doesn't matter what kind of damage it took before it got there.
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AJ Harris
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DaviddesJ wrote:
much0gust0 wrote:
JR, you obviously know better than I do, but where do the rules say that the damage cards go away when you sink?


I think it's just supposed to be obvious. If your ship is at the bottom of the ocean, it doesn't matter what kind of damage it took before it got there.


I don't disagree. But, as board game rules, they should be pretty explicit about what happens. Just like you want them to be explicit about whether to 'reveal' the sealed events or not, I think it's important for us not to just assume. There was a pretty large discussion about whether or not you still earn gold from a field in winter if your opponent is only paying back earlier enmity tokens to raid it, since the rules explicitly state you do not, but JR (or Rob?) said that you still do if there is no token on it...

I think it's obvious that you lose the goods in the hold of that ship, and it lists that...why would it not also list to remove those damage cards? It's certainly an oversight, unless it's found elsewhere in the rules (which is more what I was asking).
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JR Honeycutt
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I hear you, and I wish there was a way to make that clearer in the rules after the fact.

Your original ship (the one with damage on it) is at the bottom of the ocean (or a harbor! OR SOMEWHERE ELSE?????????) and now you're building a new one in the same mold. Your people (being reasonable shipwrights) build them without the damage

Spoiler (click to reveal)
or curses!


that was on the one that sank.

If you're a Star Trek fan, you're building the Enterprise-B (or C)

Spoiler (click to reveal)
or E!


I can't speak for Rob, but in my mind I never thought to clarify that the damage cards came off, which I should have thought of! So, my bad.

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Shane Mason
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Has anyone addressed the strategy of intentionally sinking ships early in the game in order to explore highly dangerous sites with few consequences?
 
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David desJardins
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Kingvikingz wrote:
Has anyone addressed the strategy of intentionally sinking ships early in the game in order to explore highly dangerous sites with few consequences?


If your ship sinks, you fail your attempt. So "intentionally sinking" doesn't work at all.

You certainly could decide later that your ship is so damaged that you would rather have it sink than try to get it back to a shipyard and repair it. I guess that's a "strategy" of a sort. But it's pretty expensive, so I wouldn't call that "few consequences".
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JR Honeycutt
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we messed around a lot with penalties for sinking ships before ultimately saying "if you want to spend two whole turns sinking your ship to rebuild it at port, go for it" - we couldn't think of enough good reasons why somebody would really need to to actively prevent it from happening.
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Simon C
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jayahre wrote:

Your original ship (the one with damage on it) is at the bottom of the ocean (or a harbor! OR SOMEWHERE ELSE?????????) and now you're building a new one in the same mold. Your people (being reasonable shipwrights) build them without the damage.


I'm suddenly tempted to say whenever a ship sinks, the player has to add a tally marker to the name of the ship. "This is the Golden Hind v4!"
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