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Subject: two hand dune rss

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Toby Yasutake
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i love the game of dune, but not many other people in my group do, so i have only played four players a few times, and five players once or twice. never six players.

because of this, i was driven to invent this three player variant to dune. i have never played it, but i hope so soon.

Two Hand Dune:
Idea: eveyone controles two factions

ok ok, hear me out, this is how it works.

one faction is your main, and the other is your second "allie"
you control both. manage the spice, ext
when the first worm comes up, you become allied to your second, and then can use the special abilitys of the second.
when the second worm comes up, every one randomly repicks second allies.
so: there are three main factions fighting for dune, and there are three minor factions shifting alliances and loyaltys.

there are little kinks that have to be worked out,

(for example: when you swich sides, do the trators and trechery cards also swich? should the second get trators and trechery cards in the first place? what about BG prediction? if they are a minor side, does everyone write down a prediction, and the win if the prediction is correct AND the BG are on their side?)

but i think it could be a good idea, and an interesting game

but then, i have not played many dune games, so i ask what you guys think
 
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Zom Bee
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y-bot wrote:

there are little kinks that have to be worked out,

(for example: when you swich sides, do the trators and trechery cards also swich? should the second get trators and trechery cards in the first place? what about BG prediction? if they are a minor side, does everyone write down a prediction, and the win if the prediction is correct AND the BG are on their side?)


What about atreides or fremen premonition - they get to look at the upcoming cards on the storm/spice deck or treachery decks each turn...you can't "not see" that if you are playing either of them as your 'blind' faction (not yet allied) while controlling another faction...
 
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Armin Sudhoff
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I'd prefer not to change allies during the nexuses, because in that case everybody only uses his ally for kamikaze-attacks, knowing, that next turn his ally might be his enemy. Also the spice the ally recieves will be given after each turn to the "major"-faction. But the major problem lies, as Zom Bee already mentioned, in the information the minors have: e.g. you will know the traitor(s), treachery-cards and when the minor's atreides ALL the treachery cards, they noted. When allies change, the information will be spread to your enemy and after a few nexuses, all the infos will be "revealed" to all. When being unlucky, you are never allied to the atreides, so you don't know the treachery-cards of the others.
It seems to me too randomly and aimless.
IMO it's better just not to change allies or: to bid for allies! cool
Ally-bidding could be made like bidding for treachery cards: The one who bids most spice may first select his ally (spice goes to the bank), then the other two players bid for the remaining two minor factions. It would give spice a new sence and would make ally changing not that randomly.
You could also start the game without the minor factions and bring them to play, after the first worm occurs. The 10 Atreides and Harkonnen tokens are then send for free to Arrakeen and Carthag, The Fremen-ally may set their 10tokens as usual. Spice is not yet collected by minor emperor, or minor guild, until they are allied . The BG-prediction might be left out of game, when being a minor faction, they send their spiritual advisors not before being allied.
 
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Toby Yasutake
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ok this is what i was thinking

if your minor is atretise, then you get to see the spice card and the trechery card when he works for you. Then if the minor swiches to your left player, he gets to see what the card is.

you would probably keep your treachery cards, your trators, and your spice, and only change troop positions. the harkonen would randomly drop half there hand, but the droped cards dont go to the discards, but to a special magical far a way place, and you would get them back when you get the harkonen again

everyone writes down a bg prediction if the bg are minor
when you pick trators for your minor, you can pick any faticton execpt your major faction leaders, so the "fremen" trator could be stilgard, so when the fremen swich sides, and you fight them, you could call trator.

uhhh...

on the kamikazi attacks, yes thats a problem, the only thing i can think of is that the minor faction gets picked at random, so you could get your sevirely weakened minor back again, but thats only a one in three chance.

anyway, its just an idea...
 
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Toby Yasutake
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Quote:
you can't "not see" that if you are playing either of them as your 'blind' faction (not yet allied) while controlling another faction


oh yes, uhh

i would say that you see it anyway,

if you dont like this, then either
1: start with the players allied
2: live with it
3: change it somehow that i cant see
4: dont play with this variant

it would be the same as "hey! you are not allied, but you are working together" sort of thing.

the atretise sell the info for free to you.
 
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Armin Sudhoff
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y-bot wrote:
... 3: change it somehow that i cant see


What about the bidding for allies (see above)?! In that case you can prevent the others (when having enough spice) from allying with the Atreides, so that you are the only player, knowing the opponents treachery cards.
Bidding for allies seems also more realisticly for gameplay, cause you have to "maintain" relationship with your "friends".
 
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Toby Yasutake
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that actualy sound like a really really good idea

now, every turn? or when the nexus comes up?

hrmm...

but now that i think of it, wouldent the person leading with spice do kamikazi attacks anyway, giveing a terible allie to someone else?

maybe not with the atreitise, but i can definetly see this happening with the fremen or the emperer.

 
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Armin Sudhoff
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The idea was, only to let bid, when a nexus occurs.
y-bot wrote:

but now that i think of it, wouldent the person leading with spice do kamikazi attacks anyway, giveing a terible allie to someone else?

1.) When playing a three-player-Dune, there will always be three minor factions... but the richest player will only be able to use one faction to kamikaze, so for the next nexus there might be two 'good' allies and one 'crap' ally for the guy with the fewest spice.
2.) If a player really just uses his ally for kamikaze-attacks, he might have to wait very long, until the next worm appears. So he will always have to think twice to let his ally suicide himself.
3.) He has paid much spice for being allowed to do that kamikaze-trips!
Another player might prefer a weaker ally, but safe his spice for bidding or shipping his own troops!
 
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