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Subject: So does this mean we are being scammed by other game companies?? rss

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deekerston schweddy
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Controversial topic I know, but one that should be discussed. This company has made some of the best looking components I have ever seen in a board game from the minis to the metal bits, to the marbled dice, to the sand timer, and on and on and it comes in at $75! Cthulu wars, while also incredible components = over $200. Monster, again incredible components = well over $200 particularly when adding expansion material. Maybe these are unfair comparisons, but I believe that Riot games has set a certain bar, no???
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James Clarke
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deekerston wrote:
Controversial topic I know, but one that should be discussed. This company has made some of the best looking components I have ever seen in a board game from the minis to the metal bits, to the marbled dice, to the sand timer, and on and on and it comes in at $75! Cthulu wars, while also incredible components = over $200. Monster, again incredible components = well over $200 particularly when adding expansion material. Maybe these are unfair comparisons, but I believe that Riot games has set a certain bar, no???


What you have to understand is Riot completely cut out the middle man by distributing this game themselves. They have said if they used the distribution methods the rest of the board games industry uses the game would have cost upwards of $150.
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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Actually no, I don't agree, for several reasons:

1 - Riot makes $1bn dollars a year from it's online game. I would venture to guess they are taking little to no profit from selling this game. They have called it a "gift" to League of Legends players. If anything, this is a way to advertise their online game to a new crowd (boardgamers). A game company could never afford to have such a slim profit margin on a game of this size, they would go bankrupt.

2 - By selling exclusively through their online store, they are removing the retail mark up (which can go as high as 60%) AND they are skipping the cost of distributing the game to a retailer. If you put this in a retail store, these two factors alone would bring the price of the game up to approximately $150. This is in line with what a game company would charge for a game like this at retail.
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Joe Crane
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Besides what the other people have said, have you not enjoyed the previous games you have bought?
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Ted Fleischel
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I agree for the most part. I do think Riot was in a better position to do this. Not sure I would quite throw other companies into the 'scam' department, but I could be persuaded to change my mind.
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cinos
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Issue is that even if you assume Riot just sell this at cost (which they aren't), then they've fronted up 2.25 million dollars just to have the game made, and that doesn't even include development.

They achieved this by cutting out the middle man and shipping themselves with their own distribution centres, not to mention a bulk order discount for 30k units from a company that made 1.6 billion dollars last year alone.

There are very few game companies that can currently do that. I doubt even FFG or CMON would have the clout.

One day, I hope this kind of bar can be set, but I think we're a long way off this becoming the norm.
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deekerston schweddy
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So then back to my original question. Would a 60% retail markup be considered a "scam" to anyone or is it one of those things that we are so used to, we just go along (because we've really got not choice)?? If I am willing to wait a few months for the price to "come down" on Amazon, I can sometimes get a $60 game for $30 or $40.
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Joe Crane
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deekerston wrote:
So then back to my original question. Would a 60% retail markup be considered a "scam" to anyone or is it one of those things that we are so used to, we just go along (because we've really got not choice)?? If I am willing to wait a few months for the price to "come down" on Amazon, I can sometimes get a $60 game for $30 or $40.
Do you think it's only board games with that mark up?
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deekerston schweddy
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VaeVictis666 wrote:
Besides what the other people have said, have you not enjoyed the previous games you have bought?


Oh absolutely! And I do understand that value is in the eye of the beholder. I know I'd likely LOVE Cthulu Wars and/or Monster, but no way in heck I'm spending that much money on plastic and cardboard!
 
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deekerston schweddy
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VaeVictis666 wrote:
deekerston wrote:
So then back to my original question. Would a 60% retail markup be considered a "scam" to anyone or is it one of those things that we are so used to, we just go along (because we've really got not choice)?? If I am willing to wait a few months for the price to "come down" on Amazon, I can sometimes get a $60 game for $30 or $40.
Do you think it's only board games with that mark up?


No I don't, but I do believe board games have an inordinately high markup compared to some other products. This could open up a much larger discussion about "markups, fair or not"? Haha.
 
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Joe Crane
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An Iphone costs around 200 to 250 for apple to make. It's standard to have huge markups. I won't tell you the mark up on popcorn at a theater.
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Bruno D
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deekerston wrote:
VaeVictis666 wrote:
Besides what the other people have said, have you not enjoyed the previous games you have bought?


Oh absolutely! And I do understand that value is in the eye of the beholder. I know I'd likely LOVE Cthulu Wars and/or Monster, but no way in heck I'm spending that much money on plastic and cardboard!


You know it is not only plastic and cardboard you are paying for, right ? There is a lot more work behind a boardgame than just the material components you get in the box !
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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deekerston wrote:
So then back to my original question. Would a 60% retail markup be considered a "scam" to anyone or is it one of those things that we are so used to, we just go along (because we've really got not choice)?? If I am willing to wait a few months for the price to "come down" on Amazon, I can sometimes get a $60 game for $30 or $40.


Personally I do not consider it a "scam" when retail owners want to make a living. I love my FLGS and I do not expect the people who work there to work for free, I do not expect the shipping companies to get the games to them for free, I do not expect the utility companies to heat and light the place for free, and I do not expect the landlord to give them the space for free. This money needs to come from somewhere.

If you want to shop on Amazon for discounts, there is nothing wrong with that, but I prefer my FLGS and I am willing to pay a few bucks for the services it provides. I can't go to Amazon on a Friday night and find a bunch of people to play X-wing with. Amazon does a shitty job of recommending new games to me.

In fact, if you are getting your games from Amazon for such cheap prices, then who exactly is "scamming" you? It sounds like you are cutting out the middleman in your other purchases, just like MvM is doing, and getting a great deal.

I find this whole idea that games are "overpriced" somewhat ridiculous. Even at the prices they are currently selling for, no-one (designers, artists, playtesters, developers, manufacturers, retailers) is getting rich. Board gaming has some of the slimmest margins of any retail business. If it weren't for M:TG many game stores would not survive just on the mark-up of boxed games.
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Julien Grenier
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Beside the already valid points made.
1 Let's not forget about the economy of scales. The more copy of one thing you want to be made, the lower the cost per unit. Their initial print order is for 30k copies. There is only an handful (or two) of boardgames that will ever sell that many copies.

2 They make over 4millions per day in revenues. Even it costs them 75$ to produce the game (hence 0$ in profit). Printing 30k games is $2.2 millions or about half-a-day worth of revenue. They aren't making this game to make money with it.


There is basically 2 reasons they made that game.

1 They wanted to make it because they love boardgames and they could make it.

2 Their growth rate is stalling and they are looking for new LoL players among the boardgame community.
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deekerston wrote:
I do believe board games have an inordinately high markup compared to some other products.


As much as you'd probably want to believe that, I think you'd find it is more often not true, especially in the "commodity" industry.

How much do you think a CD cost to make? A DVD? A video game? Of course all of these things have "development costs", but so do board games. Strictly physical markup, you'd find that those have colossal markup compared to board games.

Pretty much every retail product is going to have a comparable markup, with the exception of deep discounters.
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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A basic lack of knowledge about the difference between wholesale and retail is strongly evident in so many of these discussions. It is not a "huge" mark-up to add 60% to the distributors cost when selling at retail. This money needs to pay for every aspect of maintaining a retail environment and leave a little bit of profit for the owner.

There is so much entitlement sometimes from the boardgaming community it drives me a little bonkers...
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Rick
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deekerston wrote:
Controversial topic I know, but one that should be discussed. This company has made some of the best looking components I have ever seen in a board game from the minis to the metal bits, to the marbled dice, to the sand timer, and on and on and it comes in at $75! Cthulu wars, while also incredible components = over $200. Monster, again incredible components = well over $200 particularly when adding expansion material. Maybe these are unfair comparisons, but I believe that Riot games has set a certain bar, no???
Check what I wrote about Price here: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1640768/price

TL;DR - They are selling way below a normal MSRP (possibly at cost) because they are selling direct.
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deekerston schweddy
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VaeVictis666 wrote:
An Iphone costs around 200 to 250 for apple to make. It's standard to have huge markups. I won't tell you the mark up on popcorn at a theater.


Correct. Completely understood. This is why Apple is multibillion dollar company. They have provided a product that people love and KNOW that they can mark up to astronomical numbers and people will still buy them (in most cases subsidized and/or spread out over time with payment plans). Is it right? Maybe. Does it make good business sense? Absolutely!! Same thing with popcorn. People LOVE them some good buttery popcorn at the movies and are willing to pay "astronomical" amounts for it. How many of us, though, have said "Man, that is way too expensive"! And how many of us have stopped (like myself) buying popcorn at the theater?
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deekerston schweddy
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teg2 wrote:
deekerston wrote:
VaeVictis666 wrote:
Besides what the other people have said, have you not enjoyed the previous games you have bought?


Oh absolutely! And I do understand that value is in the eye of the beholder. I know I'd likely LOVE Cthulu Wars and/or Monster, but no way in heck I'm spending that much money on plastic and cardboard!


You know it is not only plastic and cardboard you are paying for, right ? There is a lot more work behind a boardgame than just the material components you get in the box !


Yes, I understand.
 
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deekerston schweddy
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
deekerston wrote:
So then back to my original question. Would a 60% retail markup be considered a "scam" to anyone or is it one of those things that we are so used to, we just go along (because we've really got not choice)?? If I am willing to wait a few months for the price to "come down" on Amazon, I can sometimes get a $60 game for $30 or $40.


Personally I do not consider it a "scam" when retail owners want to make a living. I love my FLGS and I do not expect the people who work there to work for free, I do not expect the shipping companies to get the games to them for free, I do not expect the utility companies to heat and light the place for free, and I do not expect the landlord to give them the space for free. This money needs to come from somewhere.

If you want to shop on Amazon for discounts, there is nothing wrong with that, but I prefer my FLGS and I am willing to pay a few bucks for the services it provides. I can't go to Amazon on a Friday night and find a bunch of people to play X-wing with. Amazon does a shitty job of recommending new games to me.

In fact, if you are getting your games from Amazon for such cheap prices, then who exactly is "scamming" you? It sounds like you are cutting out the middleman in your other purchases, just like MvM is doing, and getting a great deal.

I find this whole idea that games are "overpriced" somewhat ridiculous. Even at the prices they are currently selling for, no-one (designers, artists, playtesters, developers, manufacturers, retailers) is getting rich. Board gaming has some of the slimmest margins of any retail business. If it weren't for M:TG many game stores would not survive just on the mark-up of boxed games.


Not trying to get personal here sir, just trying to start a conversation.
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George Morgan
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Original question:

So does this mean we are being scammed by other game companies??


Answer:

Only Asmodee


whistle
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deekerston schweddy
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gmorgan1217 wrote:

Original question:

So does this mean we are being scammed by other game companies??


Answer:

Only Asmodee


whistle



Bingo!
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Julien Grenier
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gmorgan1217 wrote:

Original question:

So does this mean we are being scammed by other game companies??


Answer:

Only Asmodee


whistle


You forgot about Hasbro
 
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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deekerston wrote:


Not trying to get personal here sir, just trying to start a conversation.


Not trying to get personal either

I am not specifically referring to you, I just think that the idea that games are "overpriced" is a bit ridiculous, no insult intended. Sorry if it came across that way.

I stand by my opinion though.
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