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I am trying and failing to think of an argument more ludicrous than one arguing that Donald Trump, who has literally spent part of this campaign arguing for nuclear proliferation, would be less disastrous on foreign policy than Clinton, and Clinton's foreign policy preferences are where I disagree with her most emphatically.
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William Boykin
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Drew, of all the people to fall prey to the JFK 'Camelot' myth, I never suspected you.

JFK LOVED the idea of fighting the Soviets in small conflicts all over the world. His military adviser, former 101 Airborne Division commander and Joint Chief, Gen. Maxwell Taylor, argued strongly in his book "The Uncertain Trumpet", that the US had to fight in small, Low Intensity Conflicts all over the world for the sake of proving the American commitment to the Cold War. It was JFK, under Taylor's advice, to create the Green Berets and to begin the process that led to the US presence in Vietnam. His idea of American power and the need to demonstrate it militarily throughout the world is now a cornerstone of modern Neo-Conservative thought.

This myth that somehow JFK was going to be 'against' the Vietnam is a whole of lot of ex post facto reasoning bolstered with a healthy dose of wanting to blame LBJ for the entire fiasco. LBJ deserves his fair share of blame, but the fact remains that the arguments that led to LBJ's escalation of the war in Vietnam were made by JFK's foreign policy establishment- namely, McNamara and Taylor.

So this piece by Walinsky is a bunch of nostalgic bullshit bolstered by a myth of JFK that is utterly without any real basis- the idea that JFK would never have done what LBJ did in Vietnam, would have sent American boys in the rice paddies of Vietnam for the same of....something...during the Cold War.

Darilian
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Robert Wesley
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shake WE're not "falling for" A-N-Y ""BANANAS Republics"" in the 'tailpipe' of 'Camelots'! surprisecaravan
 
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Hilarious historical revisionism.

Pretty sure that JFK escalated first in 'Nam, after he escalated his various mistresses.

And I'm a fan of his presidency. But c'mon... plenty of blame to go around for Vietnam, and JFK gets a really big slice of that cake.

And both parties are parties of war... it was a requirement to survive following 9/11. Only the most entrenched anti-war candidates survived their primaries following that event... so being anti-war was anti-re-election.

Its hard to fight for your principles, when you're not even in the ring.



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Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
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Ah. So this is why you're going to vote for him?
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Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
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flamespeak wrote:
ejmowrer wrote:
Ah. So this is why you're going to vote for him?


Calling out one party for their BS is not endorsing the other party.



No, of course not. wink wink. nudge nudge.

Consistently calling out liberals as morons, incompetents, warmongers, liars, cheats, losers, fools while giving Trump a pass and high-fiving every liberal who has decided to vote for Trump is not at all an endorsement of anything.

But wait, which shell has the prize? Were you paying attention?

I've changed my mind about speaking up every time Drew shuffles the shells around, because there are too many of these threads to keep up with and I don't have any desire to stalk Drew long term. Maybe I'll wait and comment on the rare occasion when he breaks this pattern of Trump apologism and Hillary criticism. I'm not holding my breath for that, though.
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Boaty McBoatface
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JFK?

Bay of Pigs, Vietnam.

Yes, not a warmonger.

If JFK is his idea of a man who promoted peace then I am more afraid of what Trump is capable of then before. He took us to the brink of nuclear war, his idea of peace was American security at any price.
 
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Jon Badolato
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Democrats warmongering ?? While they share blame as well for escalating several of our conflicts the Republicans are really no better here. Vietnam, Nicaragua, Afghanistan, and Iraq were all escalated by Republicans as well. To point out that Dems are the party of war without taking into account what Repubs have done in there is pretty goofy.
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Lone Locust of the Apocalypse
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ejmowrer wrote:


I've changed my mind about speaking up every time Drew shuffles the shells around, because there are too many of these threads to keep up with and I don't have any desire to stalk Drew long term.


You don't actually have to stalk him since he shits the bed in just about every thread here.
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This is an odd piece. Hillary is much to hawkish for my tastes, but Trump far more so than her.
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Boaty McBoatface
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jmilum wrote:
This is an odd piece. Hillary is much to hawkish for my tastes, but Trump far more so than her.
To be fair I do not think Trump is hawkish, he if fat to interested in dodgy deals.

It will be like a real bad game of Diplomacy.

"I will give you the Baltic states if you give me Iraq".

But I think his personality may well lead to more wars.
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Drew1365 wrote:




EXCELLENT link Drew...thank you!

The author is 100% correct; neither man would recognize the rampant socialism and lack of personal responsibility that permeates the Democratic Party today.




Ferret
 
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Ferretman wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:




EXCELLENT link Drew...thank you!

The author is 100% correct; neither man would recognize the rampant socialism and lack of personal responsibility that permeates the Democratic Party today.




Ferret



"America First" again. Seems fitting given the historical context. If folks think that either JFK or RFK would be supporting a lying religious bigot then they are truly too stupid for words.
 
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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How are we supposed to protect ourselves from poison skittles if we don't go to the store and smash them right in their own bags.
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galad2003 wrote:
I have no doubt that Hillary Clinton will step up our involvement with ISIL in the middle east - if we are not outright at war.

That seems true for either candidate. What do you think would be different about their approaches?
 
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Daniel Edwards
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I read the original article twice to make sure I wasn't missing anything and conclude that it only makes sense if you assume that Trump is lying about his plans to substantially beef up US military spending and his views on nuclear proliferation (yeah if Japan and/or South Korea develop nukes that won't result in action by Russia and China at all).

But then the author says something about Trump telling the truth so scratch that theory.

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Pontifex Maximus
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flamespeak wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:




EXCELLENT link Drew...thank you!

The author is 100% correct; neither man would recognize the rampant socialism and lack of personal responsibility that permeates the Democratic Party today.




Ferret



"America First" again. Seems fitting given the historical context. If folks thing that either JFK or RFK would be supporting a lying religious bigot then they are truly too stupid for words.


I like how people forget JFK did the whole Cuba embargo thing.


I like how people ignore the points in posts and manage to prove my point for me
 
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Finally Drew makes a straight out endorsement of Trump. I knew it all along despite his protestations to the contrary. At least he is finally being honest about who he is going to vote for.
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galad2003 wrote:
jmilum wrote:
galad2003 wrote:
I have no doubt that Hillary Clinton will step up our involvement with ISIL in the middle east - if we are not outright at war.

That seems true for either candidate. What do you think would be different about their approaches?


I think there is a chance that Trump is full of shit and might actually be too chicken shit to take us to war. But yea he still might too, we have truly been given a choice between a douche and a shit sandwich this year.


Yeah... and when I walk into a party with drunk people bearing firearms (many a time), I say to myself... "Yeah, well most likely I won't get shot... they'll just pass out." Having been drawn on and shot at, I can tell you that the non-rosy scenario is much worse if it goes down.

I wouldn't let Trump mow my lawn in fear that he would fuck it up in a rage fit. Having him exposed to anything that affects anyone but himself has to be the stupidest thing that anyone could wish upon themselves.

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Drew1365 wrote:
ejmowrer wrote:
I don't have any desire to stalk Drew long term.


I don't believe you. Your comments show that you aspire to be just like all the other RSP assholes.

I wish you wouldn't use the term "stalking" simply for people commenting on your posts that you don't agree with.

You don't consider it stalking when they agree, so the only difference is the disagreement.

A lot of people around here read a majority of the threads, you seem to fall into this category. You also tend to make inflammatory or at least nakedly partisan posts. That will lead to comments. That's not stalking.

If someone were to send threatening geek mails, or always make off topic replies, then sure. But that's not what you complain about.
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Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
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Drew1365 wrote:
ejmowrer wrote:
I don't have any desire to stalk Drew long term.


I don't believe you. Your comments show that you aspire to be just like all the other RSP assholes.


I commented on two, maybe three threads over a period of 1 day. If that constitutes long term stalking in your world, then you may need to relax a little bit.
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In a likely fruitless attempt to find common ground, I wonder whether we could agree that if your basing your vote solely on who is the least warmongery you'd be voting for Johnson?
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The United States has become the country of low level war. Trump wants to invade Iraq to take their oil. Why do you think there will be less warfare under him than Hilary.
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J.D. Hall
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Forget, for a moment, the party labels attached to the two main candidates and just look at them as individuals for a minute.

Yeah, pretty ugly picture, right? And we have no one to blame but ourselves. Sure, we can comfort ourselves with the lies that the media trumpeted Clinton over all other candidates while abusing Trump or that the DNC stole the primary election from Sanders, but in reality, the votes were the votes, and we cast them.

Shame on all of us. Even me, a Sanders vote. Shame.


EDIT: And whoever did the tags on this thread is a moron. Drew has his political leanings, so what? It's an interesting submission, especially to those of us alive when Bobby was gunned down in LA.
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Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
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Drew1365 wrote:
ejmowrer wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
ejmowrer wrote:
I don't have any desire to stalk Drew long term.


I don't believe you. Your comments show that you aspire to be just like all the other RSP assholes.


I commented on two, maybe three threads over a period of 1 day. If that constitutes long term stalking in your world, . . .


A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

I already live rent-free in your head. You have begun the journey.


Sorry, I forgot you enjoy playing the martyr too much to let it go. I'll let you have the last word if you want it, though. You clearly need it more than I do.
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