$30.00
Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

Star Trek: Ascendancy» Forums » Variants

Subject: The game needs spezialized shiptypes rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
The Mentat
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Of course it doesn't, but we geeks need to improve the game on that part.

I can imagine a few solutions to beef up ST Ascendancy, yet the easier ones would be ship variety and the spacebattles.

I will try a general outlay here, and maybe you also have some ideas on the matter.

Colonyship -> Can be build from the start
2 Productionpoints (PP)
0 Attackdice (AD)
1 Hitpoint (HP)
Role: Colonizing Planets

Scoutship/Scienceship -> Can be build from the start
1 PP
1 AD
1 HP
Role: Exploration/Science
Special: Impulse Speed +1

Cruiser -> Needs Ascendancy level 2
2 PP
2 AD
2 HP
Role: Workhorse
Special: None

Battlecruiser -> Needs Ascendancy level 3
maximum of 4 in play per player
3 PP
3 AD
2 HP
Role: Attack/Assault
Special: +1 AD in Planetary Invasions

Battleship -> Needs Ascendancy level 4
maximum of 1 in play per player
4 PP
3 AD
3 HP
Role: Flagship
Special: +1 AD if part of a fleet.

Starbase -> Needs Ascendancy 1 + 1 for each existing Starbase
maximum of 3 in play per player
3 PP
0 AD*
4 HP
Role: Shipwharf, Systemdefense
Special: *+1 AD for each Ascendancy level.

Minefields
maximum of 3 per system
1 PP
2 AD
0 HP
Role: Systemdefense
Special: If a non-allied ship enters a system with one or more Minefields, they are triggered one by one as long as there are non-allied ships left in the system. Once a Minefield is triggered and its damage is dealt, it gets removed from the system. If a ship(ships) survives a minefield, the next one is triggered, given there is one left in the system. If the ship(ships) is destroyed, the not yet triggered minefields remain in the system. Minefields can only be deployed by Scoutships.

Spacebattles and most likely Planetary Invasions will have to be amended to allow those changes.

Spacebattles will have to be a lot more like in Twilight Imperium, yet not the same.
After determining what ships participate in a battle, each side rolls its fleets AD and accounts for all hits that penetrate the enemies shields. The resulting damage is to be distributed to the opponents ships by their owner. Damaged ships would be indicated by placing them on their side. For the battleship one might need damage markers. Destroyed ships are naturally removed from the board, and can't participate in the next round of battle. Damaged ships can be repaired at "any" Starbase or in the players Homesystem.

Thats a first shot towards an enhanced battlesystem in ST Ascendancy, yet it might need some testing and a few more changes to work well. I also had shields per ship in mind, though they kinda make things messy during a battle. And while disabled shields would nicely replenish after a battle, I'd see the Klingons at quite a disadvantage considering their racial speciality.

Well lets say thats a start. Cheers!

Edit: Added ideas for Starbases and Minefields!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Godwin
msg tools
mbmb
I still say that it doesn't need specialized ships for the main ship.
To keep this game the (relatively) short game that it is, but add variety to the ships, they could really use hero ships.

By hero ships I mean things like the enterprise. The card could be double sided. On one side it would be the ship alone and used as a single unit. On the other side would be some kind of bonus that it would add to a fleet.

Adding more ship types to this game would just cloud it and confuse it and mess up the resource balance. The most production I was ever generating was 12 in one turn.

That being said, it would have been nice to be able to make battleships with the Klingons.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Schenck
United States
Dayton
Ohio
flag msg tools
GO BUCKS!
badge
Stop touching me!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I like the idea of specialized ships, but I kind of agree with John that it might be adding more complexity than depth. Maybe like he suggested starting with a single specialized flagship would be a good start.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tommy Roman
United States
Nashville
Tennessee
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sorry, but specialized ship types are a poor idea because of the challenges posed by integrating them into the current system. Thematically, it doesn't work because weapons and shields apply uniformly to all ships of a single faction, and I don't see GF9 reprinting new command consoles. It would also create problems with forming fleets and prolong each combat engagement as individual stats would be compared and die rolled/modified.

Now, one or two hero ships, or a token that denotes a unique commander with special powers would likely be better managed without major rules changes/additions.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
The Mentat
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
There is no need to reprint the Command Consoles. Just look at the stats of the shiptypes I have listed above and you'll see it works out just fine.

Regarding the length of battles I am not all that concerned. The changed spacebattle is merely a mix of Ascendancy with Twilight Imperium. And even the latter doesn't ever have lenghty battles. Its still simplistic in its own way.

So yes, it will create a bit more complexity, but hey, its not that hard to get used to. Instead of counting my 9 ships in my major attack fleet with 9 Hitpoints and 9 Attack-Dice I might have to make that 16 Hitpoints and 16 Attack-Dice, since they are all Cruisers. Or if its more odd, they might be 5 cruisers, 2 battlecruisers and 2 Scoutships, making up 16 Hitpoints and 18 Attack-Dice. The point is, it will feel much closer to Trek, much more thematic, and that is what I am aiming for. Its not reasonable, but maybe more fun. Especially when you envision the respective Ship-Miniatures on the board. To be honest, I can see a lot of merit in using Attack Wing Ships to cover this.

While I think that Heroships could be part of the game, I would rather see captains/admirals that cover this part. But that is another point that could/should/will be tempered with.

Btw. something I forgot about, but just added to the first post, are Limits to certain shiptypes. While I don't see any reason to limit the # of Scienceships, Colonyships or Cruisers, I would limit the # of Battlecruisers to 4 and the # of Battleships aka Flagship to 1.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
G. Michael Bridge
United States
Plainfield
Illinois
flag msg tools
how is this different enough from the current fleet system?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
The Mentat
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
There is no change regarding fleets intended, unless you refer to the possible composition of a fleet. e.g. 1 Battleship plus 8 cruisers, or 4 cruisers, 2 battlecruiser and 1 science vessel.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Terence Lee
United States
Arcadia
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I could see an expansion with 1 or 2 specialized ships like a special commanded ship or a battleship, but I think it would ruin the simplicity if you added too many different ship types.

I remember playing Twilight Imperium and it was cool when they had an expansion and added a single battleship to each race.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
G. Michael Bridge
United States
Plainfield
Illinois
flag msg tools
TheMentat wrote:
There is no change regarding fleets intended, unless you refer to the possible composition of a fleet. e.g. 1 Battleship plus 8 cruisers, or 4 cruisers, 2 battlecruiser and 1 science vessel.


i'm saying, isn't this already covered by the fleet cards? aren't some of the fed fleets more science focused, vs klingon fleets more combat focused? the fleets have a special ability, have a higher 'production' cost with the minimum ship count to form the fleet, and have multiple 'hit points' by the number of ships in the fleet...

granted, yes, more cool looking plastic is nice, but i think the fleet cards work fine in their place.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
The Mentat
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
mikebridge wrote:

i'm saying, isn't this already covered by the fleet cards? aren't some of the fed fleets more science focused, vs klingon fleets more combat focused? the fleets have a special ability, have a higher 'production' cost with the minimum ship count to form the fleet, and have multiple 'hit points' by the number of ships in the fleet...

granted, yes, more cool looking plastic is nice, but i think the fleet cards work fine in their place.


You got a point there Mike. They really seem to have covered some of that specialization via the fleets. In fact its a very clever way to implement it. So no complaints there. Yet, I'd still favor some more fancy stuff. Just a tidbit more of ST flavor. A captain card with a modifier assigned to a ship/taskforce/fleet, rather then just a ship/taskforce/fleet with a modifier.

The Fleetsheets could easily be replaced, with e.g.: sheets that demand, that a Sciencefleet ought to be composed of at least 2 or 3 science ships, etc. Somehting like

XXX
SSS

On the other hand, the existing boni on the fleetcards, could also be complimented by some additional boni, or referring boni.

e.g.
General Martok assigned to ship/taskforce/fleet could allow rerolls on Dice Results of 2 or less.

Captain Picard could have the ability to avoid combat with the ship/taskforce/fleet he is assigned to.

Commander Toreth could allow first strikes for the assigned ship/taskforce/fleet even on another players turn, or/and even vs. races/techs that deny Romulan Cloaking Tech boni.

I see plenty of potential there, that doesn't overly complicate the mechanism or break the game, yet provide some more thematic content.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eon Chao
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
It really doesn't need anything more. Your fleets already give you different ship abilities and having played the game a couple of times I can only think that mixing this up with various ship types would just drag the game out a lot longer than necessary. You'd end up taking 6-7 hours to play a 4 player game rather than 4 hours making the game a lot more unbalanced if someone gets a couple of good culture worlds.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
The Mentat
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
You are probably right about that the game doesn't need anything more in that area. Yet I stated that in my very first sentence of the thread. The thread is meant to think about solutions how to implement this, and make it work with the existing set of rules, rather then arguing about if its necessary.

Its not the professional advance of a game creator, but rather the advance of a player that feels that the Star Trek Theme of Ascendancy could be enhanced by those changes.

Regarding the game, I can't see, especially not without testing, how this small changes could add 3 hours to the playtime or unbalance anything. I'll try to prove that in tests.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Maldus Alver

Washington
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I see why they only have 1 ship type. the specialization is in the fleets.

That being said I still can see where you could HOUSE RULE a new ship type assuming if you have the models. So here is a new ship type with some adjustments to the current ships.

First make the current ships all CRUISERS. CRUSIERS are like the rest of the ships except they have +1/+1 Weapons/Shields and cost 2 production to make. However Cruisers can be added to fleets and do pretty much the same stuff they all do in the game.

New ship type the SCOUT. SCOUT has +1 speed but +0/+0 on Weapons/Shields. Scout ships cannot form fleets, when they enter Warp they start with an extra warp token (so start at warp 2 instead of warp 1 default).
For the Models.
Federation:
I may be thinking of Miranda (Wrath of Kahn) as they are the most common but in keeping in the TNG era the Interpid (USS Voyager) might be a better choice.
Klingon:
Easy the K'Vort Bird of Prey
Romulan:
Landra Class. It is the small Romulan ship you see getting chased by a Warbird in Episode 58 the Defector.

For the Cardasian and Ferengi faction it is hard to tell since you only see shuttles as small ships.

Other than that the only thing I see that could be added is a Hero ship but that is for another post.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Maldus Alver

Washington
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
tlee33 wrote:
I could see an expansion with 1 or 2 specialized ships like a special commanded ship or a battleship, but I think it would ruin the simplicity if you added too many different ship types.

I remember playing Twilight Imperium and it was cool when they had an expansion and added a single battleship to each race.

I can see adding a single hero ship to each race (or two if SCOUTS are added.)

Federation
Hero Cruiser Sovergin Class
Hero Scout Defiant Class

Klingon
Hero Cruiser NegVar Class
Hero Scout B'Rel class

Romulan
Hero Cruiser Valdore Class(Star Trek Nemesis)
Hero Scout Apnex Class (the science vessel with the interphase cloaking device)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Maldus Alver

Washington
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
tlee33 wrote:
I could see an expansion with 1 or 2 specialized ships like a special commanded ship or a battleship, but I think it would ruin the simplicity if you added too many different ship types.

I remember playing Twilight Imperium and it was cool when they had an expansion and added a single battleship to each race.

Not to mention the price would go up.

Also what ship would you use? The federation is easy to pick being the default race from TOS to TNG there are a dozen of ships while the Klingons and Romulans only have a few different ship types. Some races like Ferengi and Tholians only have one ship that was ever seen. Star Fleet Battles took some liberties but the design was flexible enough where they could make a dozen of class of ships out of one hull configuration.
1 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James J

Texas
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I need more plays under my belt, but I already see that while this would be a fun mental exercise in game design--and some hardcore folks might really dig it--I can never see myself adding something like this. It's going to make a long game longer, mainly because reading the board will become tougher. Knowing what to expect from the various ships and fleets already leads to some AP, but having to worry about the minutia of individual ships within each fleet (and possibly asking each player to read them aloud each time you plan), would be too much. And adding this to a 4, 5, 6 player game....whoah.

I get that the current system doesn't feel like individual space battles, but with the 10 year span of each turn, I see even the fleets and ships as more abstract. They represent efforts, at least in my mind, not actual individual ships. Their overall effectiveness (attack/defense/fleet ability) is averaged out, hence the simplified stats.

But I'll eagerly watch what you all come up with. Trek Talk is never a bad thing.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.