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Subject: Close Assault rss

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Dennis Kochan
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Hello...

The PL rulebook concerning close-assault, in Section E.4, allows for a die-roll-modifier or minus two when conducting a CAT attack. An additional modifier of increasing the odds to the next highest ratio when an engineer takes part in such an attack.

The question I have is... should these be the modifiers in all CAT situations? Supposedly, vehicles (in particular tanks) and crew served weapons are more vulnerable to being attacked by 'infantry' when occupying 'close terrain' (woods and village/town hexes in the game).

So, should there be different 'modifiers' for CAT attacks based on the terrain and the types of 'attacking' and 'defending' units?

I look forward to your comments and ideas.

Dennis
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Robert Taylor-Smith
Canada
Okotoks
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I read 'PL' as 'Panzer Leader'. PanzerBlitz or 'PB' and Panzer Leader are different games. The PB rule 'page' and PL rule book have important differences, close assault and overrun rules among others.

At the hex and unit scale in PanzerBlitz I don't think there should be additional terrain mods to CAT. It's a really simple game system, in many ways more abstracted than Memoir '44. Clear terrain isn't just 'clear' and eastern front villages are not close urban situations. Stalingrad isn't one of the scenarios.
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Robert Wesley
Nepal
Aberdeen
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Yet another aspect is with certain UNITS that have their low-defense numeral indicative for being lousy then under "ascertained current conditions", generally. STRIVE and 'strike' for that, too.
 
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Robert McConnell
United States
South Carolina
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Dennis, here is my take on your question: AFVs defending in close terrain (woods, town, cities, etc.) should get a defensive bonus against Close Assaults only if they have an infantry, engineer, ranger, parachute infantry unit stacked with them. Otherwise they lose the benefit of that terrain. I think this is a good terrain/unit effect on close combat.

Bob

dgk196 wrote:
... should these be the modifiers in all CAT situations? Supposedly, vehicles (in particular tanks) and crew served weapons are more vulnerable to being attacked by 'infantry' when occupying 'close terrain' (woods and village/town hexes in the game).
So, should there be different 'modifiers' for CAT attacks based on the terrain and the types of 'attacking' and 'defending' units?
I look forward to your comments and ideas.

Dennis
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Dennis Kochan
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Hello...

Yes indeed! I think that not only should non-infantry loose any sort of terrain modifier advantage (which they occupy), I was thinking that the 'close-assault' could be even more effecive because of it.

I mention the PL rules, just because, I prefer to use them whenever possible to replace the PB rules. I think there is another game 'in the series' also. But, I don't own it and am not familiar with it.

So, the question then becomes... just how much do we modifiy the attacking units CRT-shift or DRM-modifiers? If any!? One of the problems with occupying such terrain (woods and villages) is that it 'breaks up' the cohesion of the units. They may have had one or two heavy weapons for local 'support' which could have reached (covered) most or all of the subunits. Now, because of visibility/blocking problems they are limited to localized support. Which renders the units more vulnerable. So, should close-assault attacks be further enhanced when conducted in such terrain. Not just against non-infantry units but against all types of defending units. The modifiers could be different depending on the types of course.

I look forward to your opinions and ideas.

Dennis
 
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Robert McConnell
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South Carolina
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Hey Dennis, in my VASSAL PanzerBlitz module (I got it down to 49 Mb after removing all the .gifs) I currently give all Close Assaults a -3 DRM, but maybe a -2 DRM should be for clear terrain and -3DRM for woods, town, city, and -1 DRM against fortifications with engineers "adding" another -1 DRM if they are involved. How's that?
One observation on urban combat: streets are very effective "fire lanes" for all heavy weapons, so you cross or approach them at your peril. Just more food for thought.

Bob

dgk196 wrote:

...the question then becomes... just how much do we modifiy the attacking units CRT-shift or DRM-modifiers? If any!?...So, should close-assault attacks be further enhanced when conducted in such terrain. Not just against non-infantry units but against all types of defending units. The modifiers could be different depending on the types of course.

I look forward to your opinions and ideas.

Dennis
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Robert McConnell
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Robert, I meant to reply to your post, but got involved in other things (re. work). I would say that even a small Russian village gives the defender a decided advantage against infantry and/or AFVs approaching them across the Steppe. Maybe give them a +1 DRM vs. direct fire and a +1 against Close Assaults or CAATs (the Close Assault optional rule)? Clear terrain has lots of folds in it and you will be able to find some cover and concealment- albeit limited. For the most part your units will be more vulnerable than in other terrain and they should suffer for it on the CRT.

Bob

flapjackmachine wrote:
I read 'PL' as 'Panzer Leader'. PanzerBlitz or 'PB' and Panzer Leader are different games. The PB rule 'page' and PL rule book have important differences, close assault and overrun rules among others.

At the hex and unit scale in PanzerBlitz I don't think there should be additional terrain mods to CAT. It's a really simple game system, in many ways more abstracted than Memoir '44. Clear terrain isn't just 'clear' and eastern front villages are not close urban situations. Stalingrad isn't one of the scenarios.
 
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Robert McConnell
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Just as an addendum: I have been working on (just completed it) a PanzerBlitz/Panzer Leader simultaneous Close Assault CRT which I derived from Red Winter's CRT (GMT uses it for both ranged attacks and close combat). It is very elegant in its simplicity and game effect in my humble opinion. Anyway it lent itself to "my" Close Assault/Combined Arms Assault CRT for VASSAL PanzerBlitz. Still no news from VASSAL on that score.whistle

P.S. I will add all three CRTs: Modified CRT, Suppressive Fire CRT, and Close Assault CRT to the Files section when I get a chance (think tomorrow: ).

Bob
 
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