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Mansions of Madness: Second Edition» Forums » Rules

Subject: Evade twice? rss

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Greg Cherry
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Says it all if you fail an evade on your first action, can you try on your second?
 
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Chris Rindfleisch
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If there is a monster in your space and you do any action besides attacking it, then you have to do an evasion check. It doesn't matter if you failed it the first time, if you are still in the space with the monster and are trying to do an action besides attack for you 2nd action, then you have to do another evasion check.
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Anthony Harlan

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Blathian wrote:
Says it all if you fail an evade on your first action, can you try on your second?


I believe you probably knew, but it bears mentioning.... No matter how many successes you roll, you only "fail" if it says to forfeit your action.
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Simon Taylor
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Mxyzptlk wrote:
Blathian wrote:
Says it all if you fail an evade on your first action, can you try on your second?


I believe you probably knew, but it bears mentioning.... No matter how many successes you roll, you only "fail" if it says to forfeit your action.


Wait a minute.. I don't forfeit my action if the app doesn't say so? So I could try to evade X times, as long as the app says the action is not forfeit?

That was really not clear to me!
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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simondtaylor wrote:
Wait a minute.. I don't forfeit my action if the app doesn't say so? So I could try to evade X times, as long as the app says the action is not forfeit?

That was really not clear to me!

No, you still don't have it quite right.

If the app doesn't tell you to forfeit your action, then you complete it after making the Evade test. You may well have taken damage from the Evade test because you failed the roll, but that doesn't mean the action is forfeit. You just complete it afterwards.
 
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Chris Lawson
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simondtaylor wrote:
Mxyzptlk wrote:
Blathian wrote:
Says it all if you fail an evade on your first action, can you try on your second?


I believe you probably knew, but it bears mentioning.... No matter how many successes you roll, you only "fail" if it says to forfeit your action.


Wait a minute.. I don't forfeit my action if the app doesn't say so? So I could try to evade X times, as long as the app says the action is not forfeit?

That was really not clear to me!

Mxyzptlk is spot on. The app needs to say that you have forfeited your action, if it doesn't then you can complete the action you took.

Page 8 of the RR. Second bullet point of "2. Resolve Evade Check".

"An evade check may cause an investigator to forfeit his action".

It says "may", it doesn't say that it will cause an investigator to forfeit his action, it only say that it may cause an investigator to forfeit his action.

The app will tell you if you forfeit the action.
 
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Simon Taylor
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Clipper wrote:
simondtaylor wrote:
Wait a minute.. I don't forfeit my action if the app doesn't say so? So I could try to evade X times, as long as the app says the action is not forfeit?

That was really not clear to me!

No, you still don't have it quite right.

If the app doesn't tell you to forfeit your action, then you complete it after making the Evade test. You may well have taken damage from the Evade test because you failed the roll, but that doesn't mean the action is forfeit. You just complete it afterwards.


I thought that was the case, just sounded a bit odd, above. That's how we play it, anyway (action completed)
 
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Peter Mulholland
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Think of it like this:

You want to do something but there is a horrible beastie in the way.

1) You try to dodge it (evade check) and successfully dodge round it and carry on your way (successful check).


2) You try to dodge it (evade check) but as you slip past it claws you, but you still carry on (taking damage or horror but still counts as successful).


3) You try to dodge it (evade check) but it claws you to the ground and pins you in place (taking damage or horror and forfeiting action).
 
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Simon Taylor
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PeterM2158 wrote:
Think of it like this:

You want to do something but there is a horrible beastie in the way.

1) You try to dodge it (evade check) and successfully dodge round it and carry on your way (successful check).


2) You try to dodge it (evade check) but as you slip past it claws you, but you still carry on (taking damage or horror but still counts as successful).


3) You try to dodge it (evade check) but it claws you to the ground and pins you in place (taking damage or horror and forfeiting action).


So number 2 is a failed evade check, but you still get past?
 
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Peter Mulholland
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simondtaylor wrote:
PeterM2158 wrote:
Think of it like this:

You want to do something but there is a horrible beastie in the way.

1) You try to dodge it (evade check) and successfully dodge round it and carry on your way (successful check).


2) You try to dodge it (evade check) but as you slip past it claws you, but you still carry on (taking damage or horror but still counts as successful).


3) You try to dodge it (evade check) but it claws you to the ground and pins you in place (taking damage or horror and forfeiting action).


So number 2 is a failed evade check, but you still get past?


Yeah. Unless the app specifically says you lose your action, you can still do it. You just got poked on the way past!
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reaching out from the in-between spaces...
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Baldwin
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The idea that you can fail an evade check yet still be successful at evading (by suffering something else), is what makes using the app so great. They are able to really mix things up and keep you second guessing and on your toes.

Without the app, you'd need an evade deck. And a whole bunch of other decks. And we'd be hear complaining that it takes a half hour just to shuffle and set up all the decks.


Jorune
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Jorune wrote:
I'll note, that with the rules as written, one of the ways you would have to evade twice is if you PUSH a fellow investigator. The PUSH action triggers an evade check, and than voluntarily leaving the space triggers it both for you and the investigator your pushing.

I agree with the Pusher making two Evade Checks, but arguably, the pushee is not acting voluntarily, even if they willingly allow the push to be made. What's certain is that if they don't willingly allow it, it isn't voluntarily exiting the space, so an Evade Check will not result.

This is something that probably needs further insight from the developers, though, as a conclusion can't be drawn for either method as far as I can see.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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I sent in a query about this back when I made the previous response and have received an answer:

Quote:
A pushed investigator is not moving voluntarily and so would not need to make the evade check. As you note, the investigator doing the pushing would need to evade to perform the push action and evade again should they choose to follow the pushed investigator and leave the space with the monster. The key for the pushed investigator is the wording in step five of the Push section of the rules reference: “The monster or chosen investigator moves 1 space toward the chosen space.” If we take a look at the Movement section of the rules reference we see that “Involuntary movement is movement generated by an effect that does not use the phrase “may” or “up to”…” So the pushed investigator is using movement generated from an involuntary effect and would not evade.

Thanks for playing,
Kara Centell-Dunk
Game Developer
Fantasy Flight Games


So there we have it. Moving by being Pushed, even willingly so, is involuntary.
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Arinmir Belegar
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Clipper wrote:
I sent in a query about this back when I made the previous response and have received an answer:

Quote:
A pushed investigator is not moving voluntarily and so would not need to make the evade check. As you note, the investigator doing the pushing would need to evade to perform the push action and evade again should they choose to follow the pushed investigator and leave the space with the monster. The key for the pushed investigator is the wording in step five of the Push section of the rules reference: “The monster or chosen investigator moves 1 space toward the chosen space.” If we take a look at the Movement section of the rules reference we see that “Involuntary movement is movement generated by an effect that does not use the phrase “may” or “up to”…” So the pushed investigator is using movement generated from an involuntary effect and would not evade.

Thanks for playing,
Kara Centell-Dunk
Game Developer
Fantasy Flight Games


So there we have it. Moving by being Pushed, even willingly so, is involuntary.


OMG. It means that push a friend and going after him in a monster space requires two evades! T_T
 
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Justin Tackett
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eorahil wrote:
OMG. It means that push a friend and going after him in a monster space requires two evades! T_T

Even though this was answered by someone at FFG, I don't agree with the answer. The rules for evade state that you must make an evade check if you're in a space with a monster and try to perform any action other than the "attack" or "move" actions. So, you must perform an evade check to initiate the "push" action. However, that one additional move that the current player can make is tied to the "push" action, and not considered a "move" action.

I would argue for only one evade check needed.
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BAM
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This was actually one of the big criticisms of the first edition that there were too many bits, pieces, decks, and setup. The app streamlines the game so much it really shines. I expect a lot of older unwieldy games could be vastly improved with some type of companion app integration
 
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Arinmir Belegar
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Here is some similar case:
I'm in the same space as a monster and a exploration token (door). I decide to explore de door, so I must evade the monster.
After putting the new map tile and It's elements, there is always an option to move throught the door into new room.
Using same philosophy as Push action, I should make a second evade test in order to advance... T_T.
 
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Grif Grif
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eorahil wrote:
Here is some similar case:
I'm in the same space as a monster and a exploration token (door). I decide to explore de door, so I must evade the monster.
After putting the new map tile and It's elements, there is always an option to move throught the door into new room.
Using same philosophy as Push action, I should make a second evade test in order to advance... T_T.


Yes, 2 evade checks would need to be made.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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XShagrath wrote:
eorahil wrote:
OMG. It means that push a friend and going after him in a monster space requires two evades! T_T

Even though this was answered by someone at FFG, I don't agree with the answer. The rules for evade state that you must make an evade check if you're in a space with a monster and try to perform any action other than the "attack" or "move" actions. So, you must perform an evade check to initiate the "push" action. However, that one additional move that the current player can make is tied to the "push" action, and not considered a "move" action.

I would argue for only one evade check needed.


What you have missed is that evade checks are made in two cases. The first is before taking an action other than attack or move in a space with a monster as you say. The second is whenever you voluntarily leave a space containing a monster.

Attempting to Push a player out of a space will trigger an evade check via the first condition. Following the pushed player triggers the second. Two checks are thus needed.


eorahil wrote:
Here is some similar case:
I'm in the same space as a monster and a exploration token (door). I decide to explore de door, so I must evade the monster.
After putting the new map tile and It's elements, there is always an option to move throught the door into new room.
Using same philosophy as Push action, I should make a second evade test in order to advance... T_T.


Yes, you are correct, it needs two.
 
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