Walt Le
Australia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
I find it difficult to discuss adaptations and variants to the Secret Hitler game without fearing that moderators and others feel it is "political discussion" and therefore unwelcome on most BGG forums.

So as a newbie I'm asking for help to understand where BGG draws the line.

Even if one were to describe the theme of Secret Hitler, isn't that engaging in political discussion?

For example this excerpt from a review:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1635118/secret-hitler-initi...

Quote:
this game attempts to exploit a more real-world, and perhaps controversial theme ... Secret Hitler is about the rise of fascism in 1930’s Germany, but is also, at its core, a (timely) critique of ideology run amok and political processes more broadly.


Aside from the above sentence being about politics, the addition of the word "(timely)" is indeed political discussion. What if I were of the view that the politics of the day was sensible and ran smoothly ... it is just as it should be run.

Even a question such as the following, can be considered political discussion:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1481432/why-are-fascists-re...

Some members of BGG may actually like fascists, and may wish to discuss why they are depicted as cold-blooded creatures, instead of human. Is this political discussion?

Imagine, I was to create a version of this game, with exactly the same rules and mechanics, except it had a different skin ... for example I replaced Hitler with Trump (as the game designers seemed to have done in the following promo).

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1631398/trump-card

Would discussing a Trump variant of this game be against BGG community standards against political discussion? If not, how could we discuss it without going against BGG standards ... where is the line? Thanks

Is it just that Hitler is set in the past, and that's why we're allowed to talk about politics of 1930s Germany, but we're not allowed to talk about current politics on BGG?

I don't believe that all political discussion is against BGG community standards ... I think that some would be allowed for example if it was relevant to the game itself or a variant of the game. Help me to understand where BGG draws the line, Cheers !

Thanks for helping me understand. Cheers !
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You can discus the game in the game forum (as I understand it).

It is when you add comments like

Quote:
Some members of BGG may actually like fascists, and may wish to discuss why they are depicted as cold-blooded creatures, instead of human.


That it becomes political, you are discussing politics, not the game.

To illustrate.

Hitlers War is a strategic level game of the war in Europe 1939-45.

This is a none Political statement about the game

Hitlers (who had the right idea) War is a strategic level game of the war in Europe 1939-45.

Is a political statement, as is.

Hitlers (and people who like him are scum) War is a strategic level game of the war in Europe 1939-45.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J J
Australia
flag msg tools
This will be difficult, because the game is essentially a gimmick. The publishers made it the way it is (when it can clearly be easily themed as pretty much anything else) to get attention. As was noted in that thread you linked to.

But what Steven said is a fairly good guide. Avoid discussions of the politics itself, and stick to the dull subject matter - the rules, the strategy, the components.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eddy Sterckx
Belgium
Vilvoorde
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
A political discussion : I know it when I see it.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J J
Australia
flag msg tools
eddy_sterckx wrote:
A political discussion : I know it when I see it.


Almost. You know it when Octavian sees it
13 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Walt Le
Australia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Thanks for your answers, and thanks especially to JJ for acknowledging the difficulty of this

... I can appreciate that it may be difficult to moderate and to know where to draw the line

So to make it clear: If I were to propose a Trump variant of Secret Hitler, where I was simply discussing the components of the game, and how the game was to be played, then it would not constitute political discussion which is against BGG community guidelines?

Is that right?


P.S. Again I note that the makers of this game themselves have released a Trump card as a one-off at GenCon, and therefore a Trump variant is not something I have come up with on a whim or because I may (or may not) be politically biased against (or for) Trump.



1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Walt
United States
Orange County
California
flag msg tools
In memorium. Bob Hoover died 25 Oct 2016 at 94. In WWII he was shot down in a Spitfire and stole an FW-190 to escape. He spent decades at air shows flying Ole Yeller, shown
badge
Please contact me about board gaming in Orange County.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Waltex wrote:
Thanks for your answers, and thanks especially to JJ for acknowledging the difficulty of this

... I can appreciate that it may be difficult to moderate and to know where to draw the line

And it's not inconsequential that this is a gaming site. You'll never get a bright-line answer because that would encourage people to game the system.

(Which is why the often suggested idea of giving new users a little GG to start them out is always rejected.)

(If you want an avatar: No Geek Left Behind... (How to get an Avatar) You probably just want to go to the last page; it's all much of a muchness.)
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J J
Australia
flag msg tools
Waltex wrote:
Thanks for your answers, and thanks especially to JJ for acknowledging the difficulty of this

... I can appreciate that it may be difficult to moderate and to know where to draw the line

So to make it clear: If I were to propose a Trump variant of Secret Hitler, where I was simply discussing the components of the game, and how the game was to be played, then it would not constitute political discussion which is against BGG community guidelines?


No. I would expect that to be moderated because you are explicitly dragging current politics (and current shit-storm politics at that) into it by involving Trump. The reasoning behind doing so doesn't really matter when it comes to moderation, but what non-political reason could there be? Using Trump seems even more of a stunt gimmick than using Hitler.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Hostetler
United States
Warminster
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I wouldn't consider historical discussion politics, I would think that's the line showing why you can talk about Hitler but not Trump.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Walt
United States
Orange County
California
flag msg tools
In memorium. Bob Hoover died 25 Oct 2016 at 94. In WWII he was shot down in a Spitfire and stole an FW-190 to escape. He spent decades at air shows flying Ole Yeller, shown
badge
Please contact me about board gaming in Orange County.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JasonJ0 wrote:
Waltex wrote:
So to make it clear: If I were to propose a Trump variant of Secret Hitler, where I was simply discussing the components of the game, and how the game was to be played, then it would not constitute political discussion which is against BGG community guidelines?

No. I would expect that to be moderated because you are explicitly dragging current politics (and current shit-storm politics at that) into it by involving Trump. The reasoning behind doing so doesn't really matter when it comes to moderation, but what non-political reason could there be? Using Trump seems even more of a stunt gimmick than using Hitler.

I agree, but I'd put it a little differently. After all, we're talking about Trump here and not being moderated. But, we're all "threading the needle" and talking abstractly, not invoking current politics but just mentioning a name. Sooner or later, when you start talking more concretely, someone will miss the needle and the thread will end up in RSP.

One way around it is to anonymize the candidate. For example, RollerCoaster Tycoon 3 (2004) had "Clint Bushton" or something like that as a VIP. Probably in the midst of an election, like now, you shouldn't pick something that close.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Alleman
United States
Denver
Colorado
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JasonJ0 wrote:
eddy_sterckx wrote:
A political discussion : I know it when I see it.


Almost. You know it when Octavian sees it


But, if I were to come in here and call him a dick, does that make it RSP worthy? Not that I am calling Octavian a dick, because I would never call him a dick, maybe in RSP, but not here, here I would never call him a dick.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Felix Brause
Germany
Duisburg
Deutschland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
But not talking about political things is also a political act. And linguistics teaches js, that you cant't not talk... therefore silence om political discussions is participation in it.
And tbe historic era in which secret hitler is set should be a good teavhi g tool, that political silence is not always the right thing to do.
After all, latinos, muslims, women and lgbtq-people are also playing boardgames and some gamegrkuos may get smaller shen certain candidates get their will...
Jus saying...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J J
Australia
flag msg tools
MrCleanOr wrote:
But not talking about political things is also a political act. And linguistics teaches js, that you cant't not talk... therefore silence om political discussions is participation in it.
And tbe historic era in which secret hitler is set should be a good teavhi g tool, that political silence is not always the right thing to do.
After all, latinos, muslims, women and lgbtq-people are also playing boardgames and some gamegrkuos may get smaller shen certain candidates get their will...
Jus saying...


All of which is irrelevant to the BGG rules and what they intend. Which is to head off the sort of squabbling that political posting leads to. BGG does not want that stuff in their forums.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Waltex wrote:
Thanks for your answers, and thanks especially to JJ for acknowledging the difficulty of this

... I can appreciate that it may be difficult to moderate and to know where to draw the line

So to make it clear: If I were to propose a Trump variant of Secret Hitler, where I was simply discussing the components of the game, and how the game was to be played, then it would not constitute political discussion which is against BGG community guidelines?

Is that right?


P.S. Again I note that the makers of this game themselves have released a Trump card as a one-off at GenCon, and therefore a Trump variant is not something I have come up with on a whim or because I may (or may not) be politically biased against (or for) Trump.



Yes, but...

Quote:
this game attempts to exploit a more real-world, and perhaps controversial theme ... Secret Hitler is about the rise of fascism in 1930’s Germany, but is also, at its core, a (timely) critique of ideology run amok and political processes more broadly.


The bolded part is political commentary.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MrCleanOr wrote:
But not talking about political things is also a political act. And linguistics teaches js, that you cant't not talk... therefore silence om political discussions is participation in it.
And tbe historic era in which secret hitler is set should be a good teavhi g tool, that political silence is not always the right thing to do.
After all, latinos, muslims, women and lgbtq-people are also playing boardgames and some gamegrkuos may get smaller shen certain candidates get their will...
Jus saying...
Tosh and piffle.

I can talk about the game Merchants of Venus and how it is about exploring a star cluster for the purposes of trade, and contact with alien races and not once discus cheese or a cats bum.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Qu'est-ce que c'est
United States
Bethel Park
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JasonJ0 wrote:
eddy_sterckx wrote:
A political discussion : I know it when I see it.


Almost. You know it when Octavian sees it


Octavian hasn't seen this one yet. Otherwise it would be locked like the other one.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Alleman
United States
Denver
Colorado
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
fambans wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
eddy_sterckx wrote:
A political discussion : I know it when I see it.


Almost. You know it when Octavian sees it


Octavian hasn't seen this one yet. Otherwise it would be locked like the other one.


He's not a dick.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.