$20.00
$5.00
$30.00
$15.00
Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
50 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower» Forums » General

Subject: Did GW again protested the file section? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mikolaj Witkowski
Poland
Warsaw
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I see that again all the files for the game disappeared. Was that a bgg move "just in case" or again GW threatening its customers?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
JD Snider
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
borsook wrote:
I see that again all the files for the game disappeared. Was that a bgg move "just in case" or again GW threatening its customers?


Were there ever files for this game? I thought the files section for all GW games has been locked for years.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Outlaw
United Kingdom
Devizes
Wiltshire
flag msg tools
The Wing Warrior - learn more at www.facebook.com/thelegendriders
mbmbmbmbmb
quazai wrote:
borsook wrote:
I see that again all the files for the game disappeared. Was that a bgg move "just in case" or again GW threatening its customers?


Were there ever files for this game? I thought the files section for all GW games has been locked for years.


No. BGG locked the files sections and it hasn't changed since.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mikolaj Witkowski
Poland
Warsaw
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
quazai wrote:
borsook wrote:
I see that again all the files for the game disappeared. Was that a bgg move "just in case" or again GW threatening its customers?


Were there ever files for this game? I thought the files section for all GW games has been locked for years.


No. BGG locked the files sections and it hasn't changed since.


Well I do have some files downloaded from BGG for this game, so I don't think it was locked from the start. I wonder if GW still has the same policies or is BGG just continuing the stance after the whole Space Hulk debacle.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Outlaw
United Kingdom
Devizes
Wiltshire
flag msg tools
The Wing Warrior - learn more at www.facebook.com/thelegendriders
mbmbmbmbmb
borsook wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
quazai wrote:
borsook wrote:
I see that again all the files for the game disappeared. Was that a bgg move "just in case" or again GW threatening its customers?


Were there ever files for this game? I thought the files section for all GW games has been locked for years.


No. BGG locked the files sections and it hasn't changed since.


Well I do have some files downloaded from BGG for this game, so I don't think it was locked from the start. I wonder if GW still has the same policies or is BGG just continuing the stance after the whole Space Hulk debacle.


The files section was always locked. You may have downloaded those files from a specific forum thread - people still often link to files within threads. That activity isn't blocked, but site mods may still individually check the content.

I think GW would be more lenient these days, but some BGG users make it hard to go back. For example, a thread got killed recently, probably because it linked to a complete set of hero cards (the "paid for" content available in the app and also soon to be released as an official card pack from GW). That's pretty unacceptable, really. I doubt FFG would allow us to post files that allowed us to download and print all the cards from one of their Lord of the Rings card game expansions, for example.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
United States
Anchorage
Alaska
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
borsook wrote:
I see that again all the files for the game disappeared. Was that a bgg move "just in case" or again GW threatening its customers?



There have not been any files posted for this game, there will not be any files posted for this game, and it's not GW its BGG who shut down any and all file uploads for any GW properties.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
I think GW would be more lenient these days, but some BGG users make it hard to go back. For example, a thread got killed recently, probably because it linked to a complete set of hero cards (the "paid for" content available in the app and also soon to be released as an official card pack from GW). That's pretty unacceptable, really. I doubt FFG would allow us to post files that allowed us to download and print all the cards from one of their Lord of the Rings card game expansions, for example.

Far from unacceptable, I'd say sharing the stats for game pieces is very common in the gaming world. Most companies are totally fine with that; many will make it available themselves.

It took me all of twenty seconds to find a spoiler database of all the Lord of Rings LCG cards.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Outlaw
United Kingdom
Devizes
Wiltshire
flag msg tools
The Wing Warrior - learn more at www.facebook.com/thelegendriders
mbmbmbmbmb
StormKnight wrote:

Far from unacceptable, I'd say sharing the stats for game pieces is very common in the gaming world. Most companies are totally fine with that; many will make it available themselves.

It took me all of twenty seconds to find a spoiler database of all the Lord of Rings LCG cards.


If you find it acceptable to download content for free that the company offers for sale, we're never going to see eye to eye, so we'll just draw a line under it.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
StormKnight wrote:

Far from unacceptable, I'd say sharing the stats for game pieces is very common in the gaming world. Most companies are totally fine with that; many will make it available themselves.

It took me all of twenty seconds to find a spoiler database of all the Lord of Rings LCG cards.


If you find it acceptable to download content for free that the company offers for sale, we're never going to see eye to eye, so we'll just draw a line under it.


The statement I was arguing with was:
Quote:
That's pretty unacceptable, really.

There's no valid reason for users to assume that's unacceptable when it would be fine for the enormous majority of game companies out there; many will make this sort of info available themselves, and many of the others don't make it available because it is just too much trouble and the fans will just do it anyway. GW is an anomaly in this regard, not what is expected.

Also note that nobody made available "content for free" that the company offered for sale; people made available the stats, GW currently offers the ability to download those stats for use in the app. Just having those stats does not enable to use that character in the app. It does allow you to make an informed decision about which characters you want to buy in the app, if you happen to like using the app.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Outlaw
United Kingdom
Devizes
Wiltshire
flag msg tools
The Wing Warrior - learn more at www.facebook.com/thelegendriders
mbmbmbmbmb
StormKnight wrote:

Also note that nobody made available "content for free" that the company offered for sale; people made available the stats, GW currently offers the ability to download those stats for use in the app. Just having those stats does not enable to use that character in the app. It does allow you to make an informed decision about which characters you want to buy in the app, if you happen to like using the app.


Not sure what you mean. The thread that got shut down included a link containing all the heroes from the app, formatted into ready-to-print cards.

GW was already selling those cards through the app, and has recently announced a card pack offering exactly the same thing - all the apps, formatted into cards.

As far as I am concerned, people who want those cards should use one of the official options.

Interestingly, those "bootleg" hero cards are still available from a site that isn't BGG. Not sure if that is because GW hasn't found out, or GW is being chill about it.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
StormKnight wrote:

Also note that nobody made available "content for free" that the company offered for sale; people made available the stats, GW currently offers the ability to download those stats for use in the app. Just having those stats does not enable to use that character in the app. It does allow you to make an informed decision about which characters you want to buy in the app, if you happen to like using the app.


Not sure what you mean. The thread that got shut down included a link containing all the heroes from the app, formatted into ready-to-print cards.

GW was already selling those cards through the app, and has recently announced a card pack offering exactly the same thing - all the apps, formatted into cards.


It's just a pedantic side point, but as of when all this happened, GW was NOT selling those cards. They were selling app content. Someone used that content to create printable cards (apparently). Downloading those printable cards would not give you the ability to use the content in the app, any more than downloading the stats for pokemon would cause you to capture them in Pokemon Go. Buying the app content did not give you printable cards. They are two different things. Just like downloading a UniversalHead reference does not give you the game.

Now, there is the issue that I think a lot of people wanted the cards and did NOT want the app content...but they are still not the same thing.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thomas Patrick
United States
Phoenix
Arizona
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
StormKnight wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
StormKnight wrote:

Also note that nobody made available "content for free" that the company offered for sale; people made available the stats, GW currently offers the ability to download those stats for use in the app. Just having those stats does not enable to use that character in the app. It does allow you to make an informed decision about which characters you want to buy in the app, if you happen to like using the app.


Not sure what you mean. The thread that got shut down included a link containing all the heroes from the app, formatted into ready-to-print cards.

GW was already selling those cards through the app, and has recently announced a card pack offering exactly the same thing - all the apps, formatted into cards.


It's just a pedantic side point, but as of when all this happened, GW was NOT selling those cards. They were selling app content. Someone used that content to create printable cards (apparently). Downloading those printable cards would not give you the ability to use the content in the app, any more than downloading the stats for pokemon would cause you to capture them in Pokemon Go. Buying the app content did not give you printable cards. They are two different things. Just like downloading a UniversalHead reference does not give you the game.

Now, there is the issue that I think a lot of people wanted the cards and did NOT want the app content...but they are still not the same thing.

Pokemon Go is a terrible comparison. That's a video game so knowing the stats wouldn't replace having the Pokemon in the game. In Silver Tower, all you need from the app are the stats to play the character in the game, so creating the printable cards absolutely removes the need to buy them in the app.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Middleton
United States
Laramie
Wyoming
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Stealing GW IP is what got all the files banned in the first place.

You used to be able to find pdfs for entire GW boardgames on here, like the original Lost Patrol.


Lots of people on here do love to rationalize theft.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
United States
Anchorage
Alaska
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
DegenerateElite wrote:
Stealing GW IP is what got all the files banned in the first place.

You used to be able to find pdfs for entire GW boardgames on here, like the original Lost Patrol.


Lots of people on here do love to rationalize theft.



I think the entire Space Hulk bible was even on BGG at one point.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Outlaw
United Kingdom
Devizes
Wiltshire
flag msg tools
The Wing Warrior - learn more at www.facebook.com/thelegendriders
mbmbmbmbmb
GW may have been heavy-handed when they initially dealt with BGG; but they certainly had a point. I do think they would probably handle things differently now, but they still have every right to protect content they expect people to pay for and it makes sense for BGG to err on the side of caution to avoid getting crushed.

Conversely, GW are quite happy to give out a lot of stuff for free. Most Age of Sigmar units have a free rules PDF that allows you to field the unit in the game; and they have quite a good download section containing content from the White Dwarf magazine. I never really see people talking about that though.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Middleton
United States
Laramie
Wyoming
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Most of the people that take every chance to bash GW haven't bought anything from them since 1995.

It's mostly shallow pissing and moaning that gets tiresome.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mikolaj Witkowski
Poland
Warsaw
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
DegenerateElite wrote:
Stealing GW IP is what got all the files banned in the first place.

You used to be able to find pdfs for entire GW boardgames on here, like the original Lost Patrol.


Lots of people on here do love to rationalize theft.

Still I find it easy to understand why it happened - there were many GW games that were out of print for 20 years, it looked like the company had no interest in selling them ever again. It fell in the realm of abandonware and many people were looking for print solutions that they were going to use together with GW miniatures (bought from them) - so in spirit doing what GW wanted all along when creating these games. I am sure everyone would be happier to just buy the GW games but until quite recently it was just impossible. While technically it may be copyright infringement calling it "stealing" is a very black-white view.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Outlaw
United Kingdom
Devizes
Wiltshire
flag msg tools
The Wing Warrior - learn more at www.facebook.com/thelegendriders
mbmbmbmbmb
borsook wrote:
DegenerateElite wrote:
Stealing GW IP is what got all the files banned in the first place.

You used to be able to find pdfs for entire GW boardgames on here, like the original Lost Patrol.


Lots of people on here do love to rationalize theft.

Still I find it easy to understand why it happened - there were many GW games that were out of print for 20 years, it looked like the company had no interest in selling them ever again. It fell in the realm of abandonware and many people were looking for print solutions that they were going to use together with GW miniatures (bought from them) - so in spirit doing what GW wanted all along when creating these games. I am sure everyone would be happier to just buy the GW games but until quite recently it was just impossible. While technically it may be copyright infringement calling it "stealing" is a very black-white view.


Well, for a long time GW didn't seem worry about the files available here. They only contacted BGG at the point they started to release games again, and I am sure it was said they only wanted a few select files removed, but the way they handled it meant BGG locked it all down just to be safe.

But what this thread is really about is a very recent incident (last week), and as far as I am concerned, that situation was very black and white. Making free cards to avoid paying GW for the same content is completely unacceptable. That's the problem we are facing now - some people are still treating GW content like they have a right to get it for nothing. It seems like they haven't got out of that mindset they got into during the "abandonware" period.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
DyingTickles wrote:
Pokemon Go is a terrible comparison. That's a video game so knowing the stats wouldn't replace having the Pokemon in the game. In Silver Tower, all you need from the app are the stats to play the character in the game, so creating the printable cards absolutely removes the need to buy them in the app.

I'm not seeing a terrible comparison at all...knowing the stats doesn't let you use the characters in the app.

I know the stats for all the Summoner Wars cards. Hell, the app specifically shows me the stats for all the cards I don't have. I still can't use those cards in the app.

Again, I'm mostly just saying that there's no inherent reason that a person should know it is "wrong" when it would be perfectly fine for the vast majority of games in existence.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Outlaw
United Kingdom
Devizes
Wiltshire
flag msg tools
The Wing Warrior - learn more at www.facebook.com/thelegendriders
mbmbmbmbmb
StormKnight wrote:

I'm not seeing a terrible comparison at all...knowing the stats doesn't let you use the characters in the app.



You don't play Silver Tower IN the app.

When you use the Silver Tower app, your smartphone effectively becomes your hero card. If someone makes the card and you print it off, you can use the card instead of the app, and avoid paying for the content. The app, at that point, is redundant.

People weren't making physical cards because they wanted to use the app.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
StormKnight wrote:

I'm not seeing a terrible comparison at all...knowing the stats doesn't let you use the characters in the app.



You don't play Silver Tower IN the app.

When you use the Silver Tower app, your smartphone effectively becomes your hero card. If someone makes the card and you print it off, you can use the card instead of the app, and avoid paying for the content. The app, at that point, is redundant.

And if you use the app, the physical card is redundant.

I think you see these as essentially the same thing, while I see them as two radically different things.

Printing a card doesn't just let you "avoid paying for the content", it gives you a completely different item than the digital content, which may have high use to you even if you already have the digital content. However, having a printed card does not give you the digital content, which may have high use to you even if you already have the printed content.

I guess you see the main point of printed cards as being to avoid paying for content. I see the main point being to have the content in a radically different format than what GW provided, which GW had not (at the time) made available.

And, again, most companies are quite happy to make this sort of information available and assume (usually correctly as far as I can tell) that people are quite willing to pay for actual, nice quality cards, even if they already know what the cards say on them. As far as I could tell, the pre-order bonus cards for the four "extra" characters were in high demand despite the stats being included in both the base set and the app.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Outlaw
United Kingdom
Devizes
Wiltshire
flag msg tools
The Wing Warrior - learn more at www.facebook.com/thelegendriders
mbmbmbmbmb
StormKnight wrote:

I think you see these as essentially the same thing, while I see them as two radically different things.


If someone creates a copy of one of my Kindle books and distributes it for free as a pdf, that doesn't make it acceptable just because the pdf doesn't give people access to the book on Kindle.

You're basically trying to justify taking content you should pay for because you don't like the format it's in. If you don't like the format, buy the content and make your own cards for personal use.

Anyway, like I said before, we're not going to see eye to eye on this.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
StormKnight wrote:

I think you see these as essentially the same thing, while I see them as two radically different things.


If someone creates a copy of one of my Kindle books and distributes it for free as a pdf, that doesn't make it acceptable just because the pdf doesn't give people access to the book on Kindle.

You're basically trying to justify taking content you should pay for because you don't like the format it's in. If you don't like the format, buy the content and make your own cards for personal use.

Anyway, like I said before, we're not going to see eye to eye on this.


No, I would say we're not.

It's all actually mostly irrelevant now for Silver Tower anyway since they are actually going to release the cards.

While its less odd with a big pack, I am surprised that people are willing to buy single items without knowing what is in them. For games with single-packaged items with included stat cards, I've always used spoiler lists and such to figure out what I wanted. I wouldn't just blind-buy a character thinking "well, I hope it will be interesting and distinct from what I've already got".

EDIT: OK, out of genuine curiosity...back when D&D 4e came out, many people made cards to use for keeping track of their "powers" in that game. Later, WotC made their own set of cards available for sale. In your opinion, was a player that had already downloaded someone else's stat cards obliged to throw them away and buy the WotC version? Was it wrong for the players to make them in the first place?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Gallo
United States
O'Fallon
Missouri
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
StormKnight wrote:
And if you use the app, the physical card is redundant.
Actually, it can be more convenient.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
martimer wrote:
StormKnight wrote:
And if you use the app, the physical card is redundant.
Actually, it can be more convenient.


I'm not sure what you mean here - are you seeing a point to using both the app and a physical stat card at the same time? Because I can't see any reason to do that.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.