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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/09/22/pentagon...

Now is it time to end the genocide there? Should we be doing more to bolster our boots-on-the-ground allies? Is it time to put our own on the ground? It was mustard gas, which I'm not sure is officially a weapon of mass destruction, but it is a lot closer than what was used on US troops by Saddam. The evidence is a lot more compelling than the nukes Iran was/is allegedly building.
 
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J.D. Hall
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I'm all for bolstering our allies on the ground with training, weapons, and logistical support, along with airstrikes. But no more of our people on the ground in fighting positions. We've got enough people over there, and if the folks on the ground don't want to fight for themselves, why should we?
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G Rowls
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lets wait for the inevitable establishment of the the fact you sold it to them (or the people they looted it from) in the first instance.
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Boaty McBoatface
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TheChin! wrote:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/09/22/pentagon...

Now is it time to end the genocide there? Should we be doing more to bolster our boots-on-the-ground allies? Is it time to put our own on the ground? It was mustard gas, which I'm not sure is officially a weapon of mass destruction, but it is a lot closer than what was used on US troops by Saddam. The evidence is a lot more compelling than the nukes Iran was/is allegedly building.
No, as I do not believe that boots on the ground (or aircraft in the air) will end it, only postpone it.

 
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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growlley wrote:
lets wait for the inevitable establishment of the the fact you sold it to them (or the people they looted it from) in the first instance.
Unfortunately, these basic kinds of chemical weapons don't require advanced manufacturing techniques or materials.
Quote:
Earlier this month the Pentagon said it struck a pharmaceutical factory in Mosul that had been converted by the Islamic State into a chemical weapons factory.
 
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jeremy cobert
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TheChin! wrote:
It was mustard gas, which I'm not sure is officially a weapon of mass destruction, but it is a lot closer than what was used on US troops by Saddam. The evidence is a lot more compelling than the nukes Iran was/is allegedly building.


Well we know they didnt find any wmd's in Iraq so where could have possibly gotten it from.

Are they still a JV team ?
 
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Firing a single ineffective shell at a far superior military force is not any kind of unconscionable act that demands an invasion of Syria.

Chemical weapons are a boogeyman. They are not very effective and better on the defense than the attack. I think it is a mistake that the "laws of war" prohibit them in the first place.

I suggest we withdraw all troops from the middle east, then we will have no susceptibility to possibly false-flag dud mustard gas shells.
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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jeremycobert wrote:
Well we know they didnt find any wmd's in Iraq so where could have possibly gotten it from.

Are they still a JV team ?
Like I posted above, it seems they are making their own. Are they still a JV team? Well if they had to stand up to the actual US Army I'd say they are. But they are putting themselves into an inbetween category where nations away from their immediate vicinity need to start worrying about them.
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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Kiraboshi wrote:
Firing a single ineffective shell at a far superior military force is not any kind of unconscionable act that demands an invasion of Syria.
No, that probably should have been the mass executions of civilians months ago.

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TheChin! wrote:
Kiraboshi wrote:
Firing a single ineffective shell at a far superior military force is not any kind of unconscionable act that demands an invasion of Syria.
No, that probably should have been the mass executions of civilians months ago.


What about our close ally Saudi Arabia that murders gays and stones rape victims? We will definitely need their moral and logistical support in standing up against executions of civilians.

I wonder how many civilians ISIS would have executed if our previous middle east misadventures hadn't allowed them to take root in the first place?

Curing human rights violations in the middle east with U.S. foreign policy is like trying to pour out a fire with hydrazine.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Kiraboshi wrote:
TheChin! wrote:
Kiraboshi wrote:
Firing a single ineffective shell at a far superior military force is not any kind of unconscionable act that demands an invasion of Syria.
No, that probably should have been the mass executions of civilians months ago.


What about our close ally Saudi Arabia that murders gays and stones rape victims? We will definitely need their moral support in standing up against executions of civilians.
Much as I disagree with the way it is put you have the germ of a valid point.

We are not going to stop the killing of civilians in the region, if it is not ISIl it will be the Pershmerga or the Syrian Free peoples army or the next bunch of loons that emerges from out good intentions.

In fact I am going to suggest that we most likely only 5 years away form A PKK chemical attack on Turkey.
 
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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Kiraboshi wrote:
What about our close ally Saudi Arabia that murders gays and stones rape victims? We will definitely need their moral and logistical support in standing up against executions of civilians.

I wonder how many civilians ISIS would have executed if our previous middle east misadventures hadn't allowed them to take root in the first place?

Curing human rights violations in the middle east with U.S. foreign policy is like trying to pour out a fire with hydrazine.
Obviously we don't have much of a leg to stand on as far as the state sentenced death penalties go. I just think there is a difference between judicial sentences and vigilante justice when compared to soldiers rounding up people and gunning them into ditches.
 
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TheChin! wrote:
Kiraboshi wrote:
What about our close ally Saudi Arabia that murders gays and stones rape victims? We will definitely need their moral and logistical support in standing up against executions of civilians.

I wonder how many civilians ISIS would have executed if our previous middle east misadventures hadn't allowed them to take root in the first place?

Curing human rights violations in the middle east with U.S. foreign policy is like trying to pour out a fire with hydrazine.
Obviously we don't have much of a leg to stand on as far as the state sentenced death penalties go. I just think there is a difference between judicial sentences and vigilante justice when compared to soldiers rounding up people and gunning them into ditches.

You really think a "judicial sentence" pronouncing death on someone for being gay deserves some kind of respect? It deserves even less respect than if there had been no sentence, because it makes a mockery of justice on top of everything else. A murder countenanced by bogus laws interpreted by a bogus court is no consolation to the interest of justice or human rights.
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Drew
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Kiraboshi wrote:
What about our close ally Saudi Arabia that murders gays and stones rape victims?


Oh, you mean "Hillary's pals"?
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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Kiraboshi wrote:
You really think a "judicial sentence" pronouncing death on someone for being gay deserves some kind of respect? It deserves even less respect than if there had been no sentence, because it makes a mockery of justice on top of everything else. A murder countenanced by bogus laws interpreted by a bogus court is no consolation to the interest of justice or human rights.
I don't think any death sentence deserves respect, whether Saudi Arabia does it or Texas. It's hard to wag fingers when we do it ourselves. I'm all for continued pressure on Saudi Arabia to reform it's more barbaric punishments, but again, their killings are not on the same scale as ISIL, which are exterminations.
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non sequitur
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Drew1365 wrote:
Kiraboshi wrote:
What about our close ally Saudi Arabia that murders gays and stones rape victims?


Oh, you mean "Hillary's pals"?


"Bush did it too"



(Hurray, Clinton is like Bush!)
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TheChin! wrote:
Kiraboshi wrote:
You really think a "judicial sentence" pronouncing death on someone for being gay deserves some kind of respect? It deserves even less respect than if there had been no sentence, because it makes a mockery of justice on top of everything else. A murder countenanced by bogus laws interpreted by a bogus court is no consolation to the interest of justice or human rights.
I don't think any death sentence deserves respect, whether Saudi Arabia does it or Texas. It's hard to wag fingers when we do it ourselves. I'm all for continued pressure on Saudi Arabia to reform it's more barbaric punishments, but again, their killings are not on the same scale as ISIL, which are exterminations.

You're really equating execution of murderers with execution of completely innocent people while maintaining that there's a vast difference between extrajudicial killings and judicial killings? How insulting to gays that you compare them to the very worst of America's murderers. You're a mess of insidious contradictions like most of the new leftist warmongers. I'd rather just deal with simple jingoistic meatheads.
 
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Johnny O aka Johnny Soul
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I saw a longer article yesterday that says ISIS used artillery shells containing the chemical agent mustard powder. And not a gaseous form of chemical agent.

Quote:
The blistering agent is most dangerous when concocted in a gas form, but a Pentagon spokesman stated on Wednesday evening that tests performed indicated Isis had delivered the “imprecise and crude” weapon in a powdered state.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/22/islamic-state-...

Mustard powder or mustard gas? Well, the intention is the same.
 
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Drew
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Terwox wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Kiraboshi wrote:
What about our close ally Saudi Arabia that murders gays and stones rape victims?


Oh, you mean "Hillary's pals"?


"Bush did it too"


Bush isn't running for President.
 
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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Kiraboshi wrote:
You're really equating execution of murderers with execution of completely innocent people while maintaining that there's a vast difference between extrajudicial killings and judicial killings? How insulting to gays that you compare them to the very worst of America's murderers. You're a mess of insidious contradictions like most of the new leftist warmongers. I'd rather just deal with simple jingoistic meatheads.
No I'm not, in this country they are not remotely the same. We don't consider homosexuality a crime, in places like Russia and Saudi Arabia they do. We murder people for committing crimes and so do they. We can try to work towards legalizing homosexuality in their countries. But if we execute people for crimes, then it is hard for them, who see homsexuality as a crime, to take us seriously.

In any case, that is not on the scale of the mass murders that have occurred at ISIL hands, a band of criminals. They aren't killing people because they have broken laws and are criminals. They are killing civilians in order to just exterminate them. That you want to mix up the whole complicated situation into a mass of Muslims Kill so we either stop them all or don't stop any is just an attempt to prevent anyone from doing anything because you don't really give a crap if hundreds of people are murdered just because they lived in a certain village.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Drew1365 wrote:
Terwox wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Kiraboshi wrote:
What about our close ally Saudi Arabia that murders gays and stones rape victims?


Oh, you mean "Hillary's pals"?


"Bush did it too" :(


Bush isn't running for President.
Neither is Obama by he keeps being brought up.
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Christopher Seguin
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slatersteven wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Terwox wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Kiraboshi wrote:
What about our close ally Saudi Arabia that murders gays and stones rape victims?


Oh, you mean "Hillary's pals"?


"Bush did it too"


Bush isn't running for President.
Neither is Obama by he keeps being brought up.


That's because he happens to be the sitting President of the United States. His inclusion into conversations related to national politics in the US is completely legit.

And I would say that it is a well known, established, and supported fact, that Hillary will continue the same policies currently implemented by the sitting POTUS. So his inclusion is relevant as it relates to the continuation of his policies by another Democrat Administration led by his former Secretary of State.

Now do you understand why he continues to be a part of the conversation?
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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chrisnd wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Terwox wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Kiraboshi wrote:
What about our close ally Saudi Arabia that murders gays and stones rape victims?


Oh, you mean "Hillary's pals"?


"Bush did it too" :(


Bush isn't running for President.
Neither is Obama by he keeps being brought up.


That's because he happens to be the sitting President of the United States. His inclusion into conversations related to national politics in the US is completely legit.

And I would say that it is a well known, established, and supported fact, that Hillary will continue the same policies currently implemented by the sitting POTUS. So his inclusion is relevant as it relates to the continuation of his policies by another Democrat Administration led by his former Secretary of State.

Now do you understand why he continues to be a part of the conversation?
Not really as apart form him being the sitting president (which is irrelevant as he is in effect a lam duck) is assumption.

Also it could be pointed out that many of his (and whatever successor he has) polices are continuations (such as Iraq) of bush. In fact much of what he is blamed for he in inherited from Bush. And much of what he did himself a successor could well (even Clinton) undo.

He is not relevant to any discussion about the current election.
 
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