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Subject: blacksmith , settlement sheets, campaign, sailing thoughts rss

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Norman L.
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Hi,
I am very excited for this game since I never got to play a game like Warhammer Quest and the art direction reminds me of the illustrations done by Dore' for Dante's Divine Comedy. I had some comments/suggestions based on these items:

1. Blacksmith card (as shown in the kickstarter updates):

problem-
the card starts off with tables for fixing teeth and repairing
limbs, then continues with a table for crafting. The problem here is
that the crafting table becomes cropped and has to be continued on
the other side of the sheet.

solution-
have the complete table for crafting on one side of the sheet, and
then fixing teeth, repairing limbs, etc on the other.

I think that makes the most sense in terms of organization (seeing all options for crafting at once), and in terms of theme (main purpose of a blacksmith is to craft items so thematically crafting should come first). Of course, an issue here might be if only crafting is shown on the front of the sheet then players might forget about the teeth fixes and limb repair listed on the back. A brief mention of both services could be located on the front of the blacksmith sheet to remind players that the information for those 2 services can be found on the back.


Settlement sheets (as shown in the advanced rules update):

problem- only 10(+?) of these come in the box, which seems a small number for how often they would be used. Also, they are double-sided which makes accessing information (in this case any special notes players have taken) cumbersome.


solution- the settlement sheets themselves appear to be very small, about half the size of a sheet of US letter sized paper (8.5x11in).
Why not combine them into just one sheet? To be honest, the picture itself even looks like they were together on one sheet of paper and then cut in half. Having everything on the front of the sheet would make it easier to keep track of settlement information.

I understand printing the larger size sheet could affect the financial part of DL:MM's production. As a compromise could you please make a free PDF of a combined settlement sheet (all information on one side of letter sized paper) available for download (here on BGG of course)? This way players can print their own sheets and production costs for DL:MM stay the same.


2. Campaign:

This is probably addressed in the campaign, but since details on that are slim right now I wanted to post my thoughts after reading another thread which talked about the lack of an "end game" for DL:MM.

It would make sense for each Accursed to have their own unique personal campaign comprised of a certain amount of quests chosen from the overall quest count (to allow both solitaire and group campaign play). Thematically this makes sense since each individual would have their own reasons for fighting based on personal life experiences, family/race history, etc. Mechanically this would allow for greater replay value since having different quests for each Accursed to pursue gives a legitimate reason to play as each Accursed.

example:
quest count consists of 36 quests: 1-36

Accursed 1 campaign: 9 out of 36 quests

Accursed 2 campaign: 9 out of 36 quests

Accursed 3 campaign: 9 out of 36 quests

Accursed 4 campaign: 9 out of 36 quests

Each group of 9 is unique so no two Accursed share the same personal quest.

Since locations/quests are found throughout the world map, if you have a team of Accursed then you would fulfill quests for multiple heroes as you travel instead of having to go in numerical/sequential order.

example (using the world map):

If your party were to start in Andorn (Northwest) and one of your Accursed has a personal campaign quest in Azraah (Southeast), then you could complete different quests for each Accursed in your party on your journey down to Azraah.

In essence your "end game" becomes the Accursed personal quest that is furthest away from your party's starting location.

If your party were to start in a central location (such as Teneburg), then perhaps your campaign would change: the party ventures out to complete all personal quests and then has to return home to Teneburg.

However, since a final boss battle is always important then maybe the campaign is:

total # of Accursed personal quests (# of players x 9) + 1 final quest

...lol this one might be more of a DM suggestion than a 'play it out of the box' one. Again, since so little information on the campaign is available this is purely speculation but I thought I would share anyways.


3. Sailing
With so many rivers and seas on the map, will there be rules/tables for sailing? For example, sailing vessels can be scaled in the same way that mounts are: raft, dingy boat, long boat, ship; each with their own unique stat bonuses. Sometimes it just makes more sense to sail down river or across the sea, even if there are potential hazards in both the water and the sky; perhaps even on the party's own sailing vessel!

Just some ideas


I'm really looking forward to this game and hope to breathe some life into its world very soon.









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mauro pane
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Hello Norman, thanks a lot for the support!

I am going to answer your points as best I can.

1. I have created the settlement blooklet on a 1 to 1 page basis, so that side A has the first part ,and side B has the second.

The reason for doing so is because first, it keeps it tidy to a "by page" criteria which keep things neat and easy to read, also this is very useful for people who want to either cut each page to crate individual charts to be referenced and shared without the need to pass the booklet around or print them out (as we will provide a pdf for it) and do the same.

What you suggest it is possible and it would work to avoid splitting the table, however new player's priority is to usually fix their body injuries as the blacksmith table is mostly for more advance gamers or those who are nearing the peak of their development (a lot down the line). New players were having an issue that at first glance they did not know how to fix their injuries because they could not find them and I had to point it out to turn the page, this was no longer an issue once I put everything in front. I know it seems silly but for a game this complex we need to guide new players by the hand and make things clear as much as possible.

So the Settlement Sheets will most likely be A5 sized instead of the original A6 (we are still dealing with our manufacturer to see what is the most economic option), and instead of two pads, each double sided, we will have the character sheet on side A and the settlement on side B. There will not be only 10, there will be a generous number that will allow you to create lots of settlements or heroes. Remember you can also download these and print them out yourself if you run out.

These are part of the advanced gameplay and most games nowadays to save costs tend to provide you with only what is needed to play the basic game, but we wanted to give everything players need to play any scenario out of the box (except for pencils!).

2. Let me first clarify that the campaign is not a main feature of the game, and that originally we wanted to instead offer 3 "Epic Quests" which would be end-game quests that would be nearly impossible to complete without maximized equipment and levels. Instead during the campaign we have offered to create the first act of a campaign mode which will either release with the base game or later on as a downloadable pdf.

Originally we had a story for each Accursed, but we were deviating too much from what Darklight is, which is not a single story driven game, rather a "story maker" so by setting premade character quests and stories, we were forcing down a path each individual character, restricting their freedom of background and limiting replayability.

Yours are very interesting ideas but the game itself has so many layers of complexity already that we do not want at this point use the limited time we have to create more rules to add world map movement or such. The map was infact created only for roleplaying when using a Dark Master (DM) as the fifth player, turning it into a full RPG. To make such detailed traveling would require an entirely different game, possibly a whole expansion that turned traveling into more precise and calculated routes.

The way traveling works right now is sort of like a "Mad Max" scenario where the Accursed travel in search of settlements and each one of them can offer various locations suited for what they need, then move on unless they wish to later on return to it. They can buy a house and increase their reputation but if they stay for too long, disasters can happen that might even destroy all they worked for, so the game encourages you to be constantly inside dungeons rather then relaxing in town.

Lastly...


I want the community to fill up the gaps where they see the need to improve the original design or simply expand it. That doesn't mean we believe the design needs improvements once it is released, but as gamers ourselves we know how much fun it can be to take something fun and tear it apart and then rebuild it as we most see fit.

Your ideas listed here can be the foundation of optional rules which the whole community might some day really enjoy and share, including the personalized class quests (just remember there are 8 classes in total with expansions). I encourage you to try them out and expand on them once you get the game

Thanks a gain for all your awesome support!
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Norman L.
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Hi Mauro, thanks for the quick response!

Regarding the settlement sheet, I am happy to know a printable PDF will be available, so thank you.

Also, thanks for the clarifications on why the teeth/body repairs appear on the front of the blacksmith sheet. It does make sense, especially given that you have evidence for your decisions via play test groups.

I am glad that I asked about the campaign mode since it allowed you to mention what didn't work before and what is to come. I really hope a printed version of the campaign will come in the box.

Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing more updates.
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Greece
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About the campaign.
What Im about to suggest might seem boring or even ridiculous to some, but I think it could make things a little more interesting to some rpg gamers.

In this game we already have randomly generated dungeons, settlement names, events, encounters, loot, etc.. How about to include some sort of tool in the manual that allows us to create our very own randomly generated campaign (series of quests) to keep us more motivated without the need of lore? This kind of mechanism would allow certain variety and the feeling of progression, without having any actual 'finishing lines'. Since the game contains exactly 36 quests and the luck in the game heavily relies on D6's, I came up with this:

On this table we roll a D6 '18' times and get 18 different values, where each corresponds to a quest. (I reckoned that 18 quests for a campaign 'could' be sufficient.) So we start playing the quests of the first column from top til bottom, then the second and finally the third. In the meanwhile, we gain either fixed or random rewards based on another table, to give an even better sense of progression.

ex. Tier 1 rewards: Each Accursed gains X crowns and draws 2 cards from the Rare Loot deck. Tier 2 rewards: Each Accursed gains Y crowns and a horse. Etc..
 
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mauro pane
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darkabolisher wrote:
About the campaign.
What Im about to suggest might seem boring or even ridiculous to some, but I think it could make things a little more interesting to some rpg gamers.

In this game we already have randomly generated dungeons, settlement names, events, encounters, loot, etc.. How about to include some sort of tool in the manual that allows us to create our very own randomly generated campaign (series of quests) to keep us more motivated without the need of lore? This kind of mechanism would allow certain variety and the feeling of progression, without having any actual 'finishing lines'. Since the game contains exactly 36 quests and the luck in the game heavily relies on D6's, I came up with this:

On this table we roll a D6 '18' times and get 18 different values, where each corresponds to a quest. (I reckoned that 18 quests for a campaign 'could' be sufficient.) So we start playing the quests of the first column from top til bottom, then the second and finally the third. In the meanwhile, we gain either fixed or random rewards based on another table, to give an even better sense of progression.

ex. Tier 1 rewards: Each Accursed gains X crowns and draws 2 cards from the Rare Loot deck. Tier 2 rewards: Each Accursed gains Y crowns and a horse. Etc..


I think it is a really cool idea, one which I have toyed at first. I used to make a play draw a regular sized card to determine what type of loot (sword, hammer, armour etc..) and then a small card (half the size) which would go at the bottom to fit perfectly the half of the first, to determine the new random stats, so you could get +2 Damage or "Attacks poison targets". but we moved away from that because it was slowing down the game a lot and people were struggling to bookeep all these cards.

Your idea works really well if you go full paper character sheets and items. For this game since a lot of it is in visuals, a system like that would be too hard to do without creating hundreds of cards an lots of clutter.

But you got my full support for trying to fit this system into the game once you have it
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Greece
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Im really glad you like it!
By the way those items would've been hectic but yeah.. they'd surely make things a little more complicated.
Once the game is out and I find the time, I'll do my best to keep any upcoming custom rules as balanced and tidy as possible! Thanks for the support!
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