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Codex: Card-Time Strategy – Deluxe Set» Forums » Reviews

Subject: Update after getting the physical copy rss

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Walter Greer
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I along with several thousand backers helped kickstart Codex. I went all in and purchased the deluxe version. The box is huge and weighs about 17 lbs. I have already reviewed the gameplay in another post and there is a ton of resources on that already.

The question now is, are the components great or mediocre? Here is the good news. The card quality is excellent and the print quality is unmatched. Each card has its own detailed art. The card folders have amazing art and great quality. The mouse pad material playmats are well thought out with good use of space and positioning. The chits are better than standard with no stray paper peeling away. The 3 additional paper playmats are nice extras allowing for 5 player games. The map cards are diverse and add extra layers of strategy to the game with various global effects. Included is a hp tracker for the 2 bases. Its well made overall, but the dials are a little loose requiring care when handling to avoid an inadvertent change in hp. The additional 3 extra heavy paper play mats are nice to have but the original insert isnt deep enough to hold them with the fully loaded custom card folders. Even if you omit the 3 extra card mats, the box top still doesn't fully depress. I dont think they anticipated that the card folders would increase in width demonstrably after adding the cards, but they in fact did.

Overall the physical components of the game are above average to excellent, with only minor quibbles related to the insert. But all things considered, the root of the smaller insert is that the designer added extra stuff for us gamers, and for that I am willing to overlook a minor concern in favor of the greater good.
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Joel Petersen
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Where is the review part?
 
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Ari Cornman
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joelpetersen wrote:
Where is the review part?

It's a review of component quality, which is certainly one criteria some people may care about for whether or not to buy a game (or in deciding which version of a game to get).
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Ian Stewart
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Here's the other post referenced with the gameplay review: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1564980/first-impressions-s...
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Chad Taylor
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Thanks for playtesting this for when the real version comes out. [/snarky Sirlin comment]
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Tony Wren-Rodriguez
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All in all, I think you're spot on with everything you mentioned. I will add though, that, because the decks and binders can be mixed and matched, I don't know if it was intended that the cards should stay in the binders, that's why they included the dividers. Part of the fun of the game is that you can pick heroes and cards from 1, 2, or 3 different colors and use them together... leaving them in the binders makes that type of codex-building much more difficult, lengthy, and much less likely. Just my thoughts on it...

~ PyroFrog
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Sharpo Bject
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Bullwinkle wrote:
Thanks for playtesting this for when the real version comes out. [/snarky Sirlin comment]


What if you wait for the real version but it never arrives??
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Jonathan Maisonneuve
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Pyrofrog916 wrote:
All in all, I think you're spot on with everything you mentioned. I will add though, that, because the decks and binders can be mixed and matched, I don't know if it was intended that the cards should stay in the binders, that's why they included the dividers. Part of the fun of the game is that you can pick heroes and cards from 1, 2, or 3 different colors and use them together... leaving them in the binders makes that type of codex-building much more difficult, lengthy, and much less likely. Just my thoughts on it...

~ PyroFrog


Exactly, I dont keep the cards in the binders for this very reason and I find it awesome they added a place with dividers for this.
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Chad Taylor
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sharpobject wrote:
Bullwinkle wrote:
Thanks for playtesting this for when the real version comes out. [/snarky Sirlin comment]


What if you wait for the real version but it never arrives??


Ha! I never saw that. He probably should have made a bigger deal of that at the time. I probably would have backed Codex. His history of doing this is absolutely the main reason I didn't back. In fact, he's so notorious, that even having seen that, I don't entirely believe him.
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Bullwinkle wrote:
sharpobject wrote:
Bullwinkle wrote:
Thanks for playtesting this for when the real version comes out. [/snarky Sirlin comment]


What if you wait for the real version but it never arrives??


Ha! I never saw that. He probably should have made a bigger deal of that at the time. I probably would have backed Codex. His history of doing this is absolutely the main reason I didn't back. In fact, he's so notorious, that even having seen that, I don't entirely believe him.


I don't believe you.
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Alex Krasny
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Your loss
 
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Walter Greer
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Bullwinkle wrote:
sharpobject wrote:
Bullwinkle wrote:
Thanks for playtesting this for when the real version comes out. [/snarky Sirlin comment]


What if you wait for the real version but it never arrives??


Ha! I never saw that. He probably should have made a bigger deal of that at the time. I probably would have backed Codex. His history of doing this is absolutely the main reason I didn't back. In fact, he's so notorious, that even having seen that, I don't entirely believe him.


Sirlin offered a ten dollar upgrade kit for Yomi. That's hardly a burden. Most gaming companies would just release the full price version with no separate patch for the older version. Your complaint shows that there are just some people that can never be pleased.
 
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Chad Taylor
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Glencannon wrote:
Bullwinkle wrote:
sharpobject wrote:
Bullwinkle wrote:
Thanks for playtesting this for when the real version comes out. [/snarky Sirlin comment]


What if you wait for the real version but it never arrives??


Ha! I never saw that. He probably should have made a bigger deal of that at the time. I probably would have backed Codex. His history of doing this is absolutely the main reason I didn't back. In fact, he's so notorious, that even having seen that, I don't entirely believe him.


Sirlin offered a ten dollar upgrade kit for Yomi. That's hardly a burden. Most gaming companies would just release the full price version with no separate patch for the older version. Your complaint shows that there are just some people that can never be pleased.


And your comment shows that you're okay judging with no research.

Pandante cost me $65 more dollars to get the real game after I'd already shelled out $100. And it left me with a fancy box that became utterly useless, plus there were bits left over that didn't quite fit in the new box.

Also, it's entirely more about the consistency of this practice. This is a multiple times bitten, finally shy scenario.

But thanks for chiming in months later.
 
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Walter Greer
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Bullwinkle wrote:
Glencannon wrote:
Bullwinkle wrote:
sharpobject wrote:
Bullwinkle wrote:
Thanks for playtesting this for when the real version comes out. [/snarky Sirlin comment]


What if you wait for the real version but it never arrives??


Ha! I never saw that. He probably should have made a bigger deal of that at the time. I probably would have backed Codex. His history of doing this is absolutely the main reason I didn't back. In fact, he's so notorious, that even having seen that, I don't entirely believe him.


Sirlin offered a ten dollar upgrade kit for Yomi. That's hardly a burden. Most gaming companies would just release the full price version with no separate patch for the older version. Your complaint shows that there are just some people that can never be pleased.


And your comment shows that you're okay judging with no research.

Pandante cost me $65 more dollars to get the real game after I'd already shelled out $100. And it left me with a fancy box that became utterly useless, plus there were bits left over that didn't quite fit in the new box.

Also, it's entirely more about the consistency of this practice. This is a multiple times bitten, finally shy scenario.

But thanks for chiming in months later.


Your complaint is relevant to any game by any publisher at any given time. I bring up the Yomi patch as an attempt by Sirlin to give people the opportunity to simply buy what's different between versions rather than a whole new version if you own the previous. This is extraordinarily exceptional among game publishers, dont you agree?

I'm not certain what your complaint is since publishers quite often release revised versions of their games. What makes Sirlin different is his attempt to offer a lower cost patch. Im not sure your example is relevant to that. It sounds like you bought the upgrade, not the patch, which is two entirely different scenarios.

Maybe tabletop games are not for you if typical publishing behavior is so bothersome. Btw you are not required to rebuy a new version of a game.

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Chad Taylor
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Glencannon wrote:
Bullwinkle wrote:
Glencannon wrote:
Bullwinkle wrote:
sharpobject wrote:
Bullwinkle wrote:
Thanks for playtesting this for when the real version comes out. [/snarky Sirlin comment]


What if you wait for the real version but it never arrives??


Ha! I never saw that. He probably should have made a bigger deal of that at the time. I probably would have backed Codex. His history of doing this is absolutely the main reason I didn't back. In fact, he's so notorious, that even having seen that, I don't entirely believe him.


Sirlin offered a ten dollar upgrade kit for Yomi. That's hardly a burden. Most gaming companies would just release the full price version with no separate patch for the older version. Your complaint shows that there are just some people that can never be pleased.


And your comment shows that you're okay judging with no research.

Pandante cost me $65 more dollars to get the real game after I'd already shelled out $100. And it left me with a fancy box that became utterly useless, plus there were bits left over that didn't quite fit in the new box.

Also, it's entirely more about the consistency of this practice. This is a multiple times bitten, finally shy scenario.

But thanks for chiming in months later.


Your complaint is relevant to any game by any publisher at any given time. I bring up the Yomi patch as an attempt by Sirlin to give people the opportunity to simply buy what's different between versions rather than a whole new version if you own the previous. This is extraordinarily exceptional among game publishers, dont you agree?

I'm not certain what your complaint is since publishers quite often release revised versions of their games. What makes Sirlin different is his attempt to offer a lower cost patch. Im not sure your example is relevant to that. It sounds like you bought the upgrade, not the patch, which is two entirely different scenarios.

Maybe tabletop games are not for you if typical publishing behavior is so bothersome. Btw you are not required to rebuy a new version of a game.



Well, no, it was not an upgrade. The original game that I had backed became obsolete when the new one released a year later. There were significant changes. This entirely applies.

Yes, game companies do release new versions of games from time to time (though usually after more than just a year and they don't often make the previous game obsolete [and I don't think upgrade kits are as uncommon as you surmise]).

What is startling, however, is the frequency with which Sirlin seems to do this. Chess 2 seems to be the only game that hasn't had a second version released.

Yomi (not an inexpensive game) had an overhaul for its second edition (and the upgrade talked about here came with its own set of issues, leaving a set feeling quite incomplete and with backs that were discernibly different).

Puzzle Strike got three editions in two years.

Flash Duel got two in a year, then a revised edition a few years later.

I may not be required to buy a new version of a game, but I find it frustrating when my old version is made obsolete in such a short timeframe (and when it happens so consistently). I assumed that people had missed this trend in his publishing and thought it might be a good idea to point it out. Yeah, I've been burned by these tactics and am frustrated and grumpy as a result. I will avoid his games until some time has passed. If you'd like to willfully throw money away, that's your choice.

So while I guess I see this as typical publishing behavior for Sirlin games, I don't see it as something people should get behind. Thanks for your concern about my interest in the hobby I've been enjoying for decades, though.
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Jonathan Maisonneuve
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Bullwinkle wrote:
Glencannon wrote:
Bullwinkle wrote:
Glencannon wrote:
Bullwinkle wrote:
sharpobject wrote:
Bullwinkle wrote:
Thanks for playtesting this for when the real version comes out. [/snarky Sirlin comment]


What if you wait for the real version but it never arrives??


Ha! I never saw that. He probably should have made a bigger deal of that at the time. I probably would have backed Codex. His history of doing this is absolutely the main reason I didn't back. In fact, he's so notorious, that even having seen that, I don't entirely believe him.


Sirlin offered a ten dollar upgrade kit for Yomi. That's hardly a burden. Most gaming companies would just release the full price version with no separate patch for the older version. Your complaint shows that there are just some people that can never be pleased.


And your comment shows that you're okay judging with no research.

Pandante cost me $65 more dollars to get the real game after I'd already shelled out $100. And it left me with a fancy box that became utterly useless, plus there were bits left over that didn't quite fit in the new box.

Also, it's entirely more about the consistency of this practice. This is a multiple times bitten, finally shy scenario.

But thanks for chiming in months later.


Your complaint is relevant to any game by any publisher at any given time. I bring up the Yomi patch as an attempt by Sirlin to give people the opportunity to simply buy what's different between versions rather than a whole new version if you own the previous. This is extraordinarily exceptional among game publishers, dont you agree?

I'm not certain what your complaint is since publishers quite often release revised versions of their games. What makes Sirlin different is his attempt to offer a lower cost patch. Im not sure your example is relevant to that. It sounds like you bought the upgrade, not the patch, which is two entirely different scenarios.

Maybe tabletop games are not for you if typical publishing behavior is so bothersome. Btw you are not required to rebuy a new version of a game.



Well, no, it was not an upgrade. The original game that I had backed became obsolete when the new one released a year later. There were significant changes. This entirely applies.

Yes, game companies do release new versions of games from time to time (though usually after more than just a year and they don't often make the previous game obsolete [and I don't think upgrade kits are as uncommon as you surmise]).

What is startling, however, is the frequency with which Sirlin seems to do this. Chess 2 seems to be the only game that hasn't had a second version released.

Yomi (not an inexpensive game) had an overhaul for its second edition (and the upgrade talked about here came with its own set of issues, leaving a set feeling quite incomplete and with backs that were discernibly different).

Puzzle Strike got three editions in two years.

Flash Duel got two in a year, then a revised edition a few years later.

I may not be required to buy a new version of a game, but I find it frustrating when my old version is made obsolete in such a short timeframe (and when it happens so consistently). I assumed that people had missed this trend in his publishing and thought it might be a good idea to point it out. Yeah, I've been burned by these tactics and am frustrated and grumpy as a result. I will avoid his games until some time has passed. If you'd like to willfully throw money away, that's your choice.

So while I guess I see this as typical publishing behavior for Sirlin games, I don't see it as something people should get behind. Thanks for your concern about my interest in the hobby I've been enjoying for decades, though.


Were you happy to play your "old" version before the "new" one came out? If the answer is yes, what is the damn problem?

Every single year, a new car of the same model is released. Do you get the new car model every year? Most likely the answer is: no. Why? Because when you bought it, it was serving you good. It is the same thing with boardgames. If you had fun with the old model, what is the big deal if a new model get released next year?
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Bullwinkle I really don't think any of those games you listed are made obsolete by their updates. For example:

Yomi: Has update pack for $10. Yes it has some issues, but it's useable. Beyond that, V1 and V2 content can be mixed just fine if played casually.

Flash Duel: Basically just had some balance and rules changes. If you want the balance changes without buying a thing, just print out the new card images online from here: https://old.sirlingames.com/pages/flash-duel-card-images. The cards with actual text on them don't need to be shuffled as part of a deck or anything, so it's pretty easy to come up with any solution you want.

Pandante: The "Light & Dark" expansion for 1st edition is essentially an upgrade pack. The "Second Edition" is basically a rerelease that includes the expansion and updated rules. So you can either expand your 1st edition or not, but it's not obsolete.

Also, for each single game Sirlin has put out, I know several people who actually prefer the previous edition because of gameplay changes they don't prefer. So worst case scenario, you can legitimately look at them as different games, and not something that makes the prior edition useless
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Aaron White
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I am late to the discussion, but here is a question. If a print run of a game is exhausted and you have to do a new print run, would you change the game if you knew it would be better? Or would you keep it the same to not upset people who have already bought it?

I play a lot of fighting games and this practice is really common. Street Fighter 4, Super Street Fighter 4, Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition, Ultra Street Fighter 4 etc etc. It is the same game, but updates and changes are sold as if it were a new game. I know board games are not the same, but I prefer the update as you go method. If you are happy with your first edition then awesome. If you love the game so much you will buy more then awesome again.

Pandante is a curious case because it felt really close together between Kickstarter projects. I liked that premium first edition buyers could get a low cost upgrade kit. I can see your point about all of this, but this is a Sirlin Games hallmark. Plus it is not like other companies are not guilty of this practice. Portal Games had a game breaking typo on some of their cards in Imperial Settlers. If you bought a late print run then the change is done for you. But if you bought an early print run there was no chance of getting it fixed without buying the game all over.

Sorry you feel put out on this one, but wanted to share my thoughts for perspective. All the best.
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Walter Greer
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In gaming, a revision can come at anytime for any reason. That's just part of the game so to speak. I think Mr. Bullwinkle is sufficiently annoyed by Mr. Sirlin in particular and has made his mind up that Sirlin's revision practices are particularly vexing. I cant argue against his feelings. But Sirlin is hardly unique in this respect.

In a broader sense, revisions point to a healthy industry. Game publishers would prefer to revise games that will sell. Revisions signal that publishers are trying to improve the game in some way. From any objective measure, its hard to argue against upgrades, revisions and progress in general. I'm more worried about good games that never get reprints.
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Christian K
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I am a big fan of Sirlin games, but I think we need to realise that there can be too many revisions (not saying that sirlin makes too many, just that too many is a thing).

Consider a game which had a new improved version every week. It would be exeedingly difficult to build a community or write strategy articles since stuff was changing all the time. Also it would be hard to discuss the game with others since they likely had a different version.
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Muemmelmann wrote:
I am a big fan of Sirlin games, but I think we need to realise that there can be too many revisions (not saying that sirlin makes too many, just that too many is a thing).

Consider a game which had a new improved version every week. It would be exeedingly difficult to build a community or write strategy articles since stuff was changing all the time. Also it would be hard to discuss the game with others since they likely had a different version.


Who doesn't realize that though? I've never seen anyone who says they don't see Sirlin's revisions as a problem say anything close to there's no such thing as too many revisions.

I can definitely get behind that. It's actually the reason I PREFER a Sirlin game to an LCG or CCG -- Sirlin's games tend to have more stability, not less.
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