$30.00
Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
19 Posts

Formula D» Forums » Variants

Subject: Danger Dice Tweak rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Kris Muir
msg tools
Hello,

I'm starting up a formula D league at my local hobby shop after a few successful games during their game nights. We will be using the advanced rules with a few changes to better fit into our 2- 2-1/2 hour time slot.

One rule change we were looking at was to make a small change to the danger dice that could make it more "realistic" and more of a threat. We were thinking that the number that would affect you would depend on the number of cars around you, so for example, if you were next to 3 cars you would need to roll more then a 3 or take damage.

We also do not have time for qualifying laps and just rolling the black die is a bit flat, so I thought maybe an "engine test" for each car at the beginning of the race could be a good solution. Each racer would roll through all the gears once and the faster engine (the highest total number from rolls) for the day would get pole position and so on.

I would love to hear some opinions on these changes from the community. I think they still keep things fun but help reduce the time a bit and can keep everyone engaged.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mavis
England
A Fine City
flag msg tools
"I have set my life upon a cast, And I will stand the hazard of the die."
mbmbmbmbmb
Are you suggesting just making one roll based on the number of adajcent cars? With multiple rolls I think if you increase the Collisions number upwards you will end up having too many cars put out of the race. It is dangerous enough rolling 3 times to avoid a 1 (or 1-2 in wet weather).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kris Muir
msg tools
We were thinking one roll but the number that would be dangerous is based on the number of adjacent cars. Only because the "danger" of the danger dice were coming into question and being called boring by the players after 3 races and only one car ever getting effected by it (with many danger rolls made).

We were thinking this might just make it a little more risky to get caught up in a clump of cars if ,when you made your roll, you had to worry about a 1-3 instead of just a 1.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mavis
England
A Fine City
flag msg tools
"I have set my life upon a cast, And I will stand the hazard of the die."
mbmbmbmbmb
How many cars in your races? Are you rolling for all the cars in the 'clump' or just the moving car?

We always race 8 cars and it is a rare race that someone is not taken out by collisions. I was taken out 4 races in a row and in one race I lost my car and the spare car which we always race in case someone is taken out early on.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tor Sverre Lund
Norway
Trondheim
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ShadowBaker3 wrote:

We also do not have time for qualifying laps and just rolling the black die is a bit flat, so I thought maybe an "engine test" for each car at the beginning of the race could be a good solution. Each racer would roll through all the gears once and the faster engine (the highest total number from rolls) for the day would get pole position and so on.

Base the starting positions on the current league standings; whoever is currently #1 starts last, and so on, so pole goes to whoever is currently placed last in the league.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kris Muir
msg tools
This option was discussed as well, but if you DNF the previous race you are at the back as well (you shouldn't get better starting positions if you blow up your car). I think we would probably go with this one and use the engine test for our first race.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kris Muir
msg tools
You would be rolling once but the dangerous number would represent each car adjacent to you in the clump (to represent you bumping into 1-3 cars). Right now we have about 6-8 racers. and we have the issue where anyone who is taken out of the race is from over-shooting a corner and losing the tires/hitting the wall, never even close to anyone going out from collisions.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Harold Coleman
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Mavis101 wrote:
We always race 8 cars and it is a rare race that someone is not taken out by collisions. I was taken out 4 races in a row and in one race I lost my car and the spare car which we always race in case someone is taken out early on.


Man, I'm not an expert, but I have run 20+ races of Formula D, including a couple 10-player races. I have rarely, if ever, seen a car taken out from collision damage. It makes me wonder if you are playing a rule incorrectly (or if I am). One caveat... I have never tried playing on a wet track, so I have only dealt with a die roll of "1" causing damage. In most of our races, the cars tend to develop some spread between them, and even if you get some collision damage, you can mitigate further risk by not placing next to other cars, to some extent anyway. Getting taken out 4 races in a row, including your spare car once, just seems way too much as I understand the rules. You are playing with 3 body wear and you realize you don't get taken out until you get to zero wear, correct (meaning you get 3 hits)?

I do like the idea of rolling only once for collisions for each car involved, like 1-3 if next to 3 cars. It is only marginally different statistically than rolling three times with only a "1" causing damage. And you could only get one damage per turn instead of the remote possibility of getting multiple hits.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Keane
United States
Medford
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
We have done this - each player counts how many cars they are adjacent to and must roll d20 higher than that number. We play where every player has their own d20 (we use d20 charts, and don't use the gear dice), so it's a simultaneous roll for body damage.

For starting positions, I just do a d20 roll. If we are controlling 2 cars each, the 1st and 2nd car go opposite ends (i.e. a player with 2nd highest roll takes 2nd and 7th positions in a 4-player/8-car race). Rolling every gear dice doesn't seem to add anything to what is ultimately a random roll.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Niels Kjær
Denmark
Malling
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
The amount of collisions depend heavily on the track and number of cars.
multiple stop corners usually attract more collision checks.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mavis
England
A Fine City
flag msg tools
"I have set my life upon a cast, And I will stand the hazard of the die."
mbmbmbmbmb
hgcoleman wrote:
Man, I'm not an expert, but I have run 20+ races of Formula D, including a couple 10-player races. I have rarely, if ever, seen a car taken out from collision damage. It makes me wonder if you are playing a rule incorrectly (or if I am). One caveat... I have never tried playing on a wet track, so I have only dealt with a die roll of "1" causing damage. In most of our races, the cars tend to develop some spread between them, and even if you get some collision damage, you can mitigate further risk by not placing next to other cars, to some extent anyway. Getting taken out 4 races in a row, including your spare car once, just seems way too much as I understand the rules. You are playing with 3 body wear and you realize you don't get taken out until you get to zero wear, correct (meaning you get 3 hits)?


This is one of my three favourite games. I have close to 100 races under my belt and the rules are being played correctly. One race I only managed to go round the first corner before crashing out. My luck with rolling ones for collisions is part of our group folklore.

Most races don't see the field being spread out, or if it does certain corners or the pits will bring the field back together. There is no real skill difference between the players as six of the seven players have been involved in all of the hundred or so races, everyone knows how to race. Also the races are highly competitive and a rival player will, if having the option, deliberately 'park' their race car next to a damaged one to try to force it off the track through collisions.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Liam
Scotland
flag msg tools
admin
I am BGG's official honey trap
mbmbmbmbmb
Moved from Rules to Variants.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
f homess

Portland
Oregon
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
On average, our league sees 1-2 cars eliminated per race. About half of those are from collision, about half of them from tyres, and the rounding error from suspension. I don't think I've seen a car leave due to engine damage. We do let drivers adjust their car configuration for each race, and it's extremely common for cars to take a point from body and put it somewhere else (usually tyres). Leaving 2 body points results in more collisions.

We don't have time for qualifying either, so we seed our grid in reverse order of the standings and don't penalize a player for crashing out in a previous race. The standings hit is enough of a penalty, IMO, and we actually want to encourage a bit of reckless driving as it's more fun. We do penalize one grid spot to cars who caused a collision that knocked another car out. So you get penalized for causing a crash, but not crashing yourself.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Taber
United States
Santa Clara
California
flag msg tools
designer
Check out my RPG blog at http://www.usandacat.com/thelair!
badge
Work hard, play hard!
mbmbmbmbmb
I like both of these ideas especially the one where you roll higher if there are more cars around you. That is subtle but fun. Right now my group hates that rule as it so rarely comes up.

I think the engine idea for starting the race is neat! Simple and fast.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kris Muir
msg tools
Thank you all for the input! We did a test of some of the rules yesterday and found the danger dice tweak and the engine test pretty fun. I know the engine test is just rolling more then the danger dice, but the players found it more fun since three of the cars were only separated by 3 points after rolling all the dice which seemed a bit more dramatic.

The danger dice change didn't cause anyone to lose the race but did make the threat far more real when the cars bunched up and was far more exciting! so we will be keeping it for sure!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Spas
United States
Rescue
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Like Mavis,
I also have in-numerous games under my belt, and I can only think of TWICE that cars klunked out due to body damage.
Never a big issue for us.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marc Gacy
United States
Lafayette
Colorado
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Example

3 adjacent cars -> 3 rolls
85.74% chance of no effect
14.26% chance of 1 or more collisions
----
13.54% chance of one collision
0.71% chance of two collisions
0.01% chance of three collisions

compare to rolling a 3 or less
15% of 1 collision

Net effect - almost no change, so why not just roll one die
-----------------------------

Note: at 8 potential collisions, rolling independently has a significantly lower chance of rolling 1 or more collisions (33.67% vs. 40% chance), but a nontrivial (5.15% chance) of rolling two collisions. Again almost no difference, so why not just roll one die for speeding up the game.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marc Gacy
United States
Lafayette
Colorado
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ShadowBaker3 wrote:
We also do not have time for qualifying laps and just rolling the black die is a bit flat, so I thought maybe an "engine test" for each car at the beginning of the race could be a good solution. Each racer would roll through all the gears once and the faster engine (the highest total number from rolls) for the day would get pole position and so on.


Would you allow a point of brake or engine damage (player choice) to allow one reroll during the engine test to push their luck for pole position (otherwise it is just a rolling exercise)?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kris Muir
msg tools
we do make just the one roll, and the danger number is equal to the adjacent cars (haven't had any cars knocked out do to collisions yet after 2 races). It has made things more interesting + sped things up and all the racers have really been enjoying it. The season is a big success thus far! which is awesome and we have had some spectators who have shown interest in joining next year.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.