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Star Wars: Imperial Assault» Forums » Variants

Subject: rebalancing Finale: Desperate Hour rss

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Georg D.
Germany
Höxter
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Hello,

we recently finished our second campaign and again we got the scenario 'Desperate Hour' as finale and again we lost. Unlike other scenarios we lost during the campaign we had no idea afterwards where we should have played differently. If you look at the win statistics it is the only scenario with more than 90% win results for one side - and no other scenario is over 80%. (I know that this is only for groups which played the scenaros the first time - still it holds some value.)
So in my eyes this scenario is too strongly balanced towards the imperium. I wouldn't mind a 60% perhaps 70% winchance but not more than 80% let alone 90%.
If you think this scenario is already within this 60-70% range for experienced groups feel free to convince me!

I don't know if we will play this campaign again but I'd like to redesign the mission in a way it is more winable for both sides.


WARNING: from this point on there will be some heavy SPOILERS about the mission.
If you haven't played the scenario yet and are not the imperal player I would leave the thread now!

For those who read on be aware that I was a rebel player and don't own the game myself so I never looked in the campaignbook. Everything I talk about is only from my memory so please correct me if I talk nonsense. Also be aware that we played the german version so I perhaps don't know all the correct gameterms.





In my opinion there are 3 difficulties with the mission which propably could be fixed/reworked/...

1) When we killed the first AT-ST there were huge reinforcements. If I remember correctly it were 4 groups. (imperial officer, probe droid, royal guards, stormtroopers) All of them appeared midround fully activated. Of course we killed the AT-ST with our last activation. So there were 4 groups who could attack us unprepared. One character went from 1-2 damage tokens to wounded and another hero (Mak) got halfway wounded although he used a once-per-mission skill to make one attack miss.
I don't mind the reinforcement. But if there are more than one group they should either enter the game exhausted or between two rounds.

propose fix: The moment the reinforcements enter play each hero makes an awarenes check. If successfull he gets some bonus
a) choose one group which becomes exhausted
b) defense bonus until end of round (+1 white die/ +1 block / +1 evade/..)

Variant a) was my initial idea which effectively limits the threat coming from the unexpected reinforcements. If this seems too strong perhaps the active hero doesn't get a roll so that at least one group stays active. [I'm not sure if there are always the same groups as reinforcement or if our IP had some influence on it.]

Variant b) seems a bit more thematic. But with 4 heroes even with everyone rolling yellow, green, blue you still have a nearly 40% chance that one roll fails - and if that hero stands near the reinforcements he is still doomed. At least in this variant he has some influence on his chances by getting skills/equipment which helps with the roll earlier in the campaign.



2) closing doors: This basically comes down to the question if you like closed information or prefer open information. This is a topic which should be discussed somwhere else.
If you know about the closing doors, I like that aspect of the misson. It gives the rebels an incentive to make a coordinated rush towards the end of the hallway. I woudn't change that (but perhaps would make it open information.)


3) General Weiss: This guy has too many activations. The AT-ST of the rebels has 4 activations (5 if they have an ally with them). Weiss has about twice as many. Then you have situations where one leftover stormtrooper makes some mostly irrelevant action back in the hangar but that stupid action gives general Weiss an extra activation...

proposed fix: I would limit the number of activations in some way.
a) make it a maximum of 4 activations (one per hero) per round
b) Give him only an extra activation if at least one figure of the group ends its activation within 5 spaces of general Weiss.



What do you think? Should the mission be rebalanced? Which of my proposals make sense? Which are really bad ideas?



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Giannis T
Greece
Thessaloniki
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This mission is well balanced. More balanced than more missions in the campaign. If you as a Rebel have a problem than you play all wrong.

I was the Imperial and lost easily against the Rebel AVALANCE i was against. For extra info they have won only aftermath and 2 side missions while i won 9 mission most of them Story missions. They managed to get very good weapons, played with great synergy in the Desperate Hour and they never did a major mission progretion with their last activation. They where killing easily almost everything i was bringing out. I managed to wound 3 of them but i couldn't wound the beast Biv so i lost in their 2nd activation on 7th round.
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Gergely Kovacs
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GladiatorGr wrote:
This mission is well balanced. More balanced than more missions in the campaign.


Desperate Hour is currently standing on an unprecedented 91.0% (61) to 9.0% (6) win/loss ratio for the Empire (the worst in the entire game, including expansions). It is anything but balanced!

Maybe you're just not a very good Imperial player if you let the Rebels walk all over you in it.
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Pasi Ojala
Finland
Tampere
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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Desperate Hour is harder because it is the harder finale.

The quicker rebalancing fix is to use the Desperate Hour if the heroes won the previous story mission and use Last Stand if they lost the previous story mission.

(House-rules on agenda cards could also be used, such as: Only 4 agenda cards can be in play at the same time. Excess cards need to be discarded. This way the IP is not just saving all of them to the finale.)
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Georg D.
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a1bert wrote:
Desperate Hour is harder because it is the harder finale.

I would accept this aswer if it had a win chance of 60-70% for the imperium and the other finale had at least 50% for the rebels. But the way it is I don't see any reasonable designdecicion behind it.

Quote:

The quicker rebalancing fix is to use the Desperate Hour if the heroes won the previous story mission and use Last Stand if they lost the previous story mission.

That is a poor fix - whatever happened before - I don't want to play a mission where I have less than 10% winchance. Perhaps it could be some fun as a challenging stand-alone mission. But as finale of a campaign where I invested 20+ hours I expect some more reasonable winchances.

Quote:

(House-rules on agenda cards could also be used, such as: Only 4 agenda cards can be in play at the same time. Excess cards need to be discarded. This way the IP is not just saving all of them to the finale.)

Do you count all agenda cards or only the oneshot agenda cards which are removed from game after use? I'm not sure which cards were agenda and which xp cards in our game but I think our IP had 1 or 2 agenda cards peranently in play. I have no problem with that as he paid for it and they are designed to use them in that way. I think he used 1 or 2 oneshot agendas.

Anyway I think the problem lies in the mission itself. My points 1&3 together with a timelimit for the mission make it tougher than nescessary.
 
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Pasi Ojala
Finland
Tampere
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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Fluxx wrote:
Do you count all agenda cards or only the oneshot agenda cards which are removed from game after use?

Both the agenda cards on the play area and the agenda cards in the IP's hand but not yet played. But it sounds that in your case that wasn't the issue.

Which class deck did the IP use?

Another easy fix would be to play the finale at threat level 5 (instead of 6). That would be a very sizeable difference.

(In my previous core campaign in Play By Forum, I won Last Stand as the imperial player, but it came very close. The rebels would've won it if Diala's attack would have given out one more damage or the defense would've been slightly worse.
While Desperate Hour might leave rebels unsatisfied, on the other hand, that makes it very replayable challenge.)
 
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