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Subject: Beware Queen Games on Kickstarter rss

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Bryan Hennes
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I backed Liguria on KS in January of this year. The game was funded and on June 29, they said the games were shipping. As part of this campaign, you could pledge extra for several of their Big Boxes, with a 400 dollars pledge for everything.

The game was made and is even available on Amazon and other retailers. They have not posted an update since June 29. They do not respond to any form of communication. They have had several other KS projects since then, with one just finishing earlier this month.

They have taken our money but have not fulfilled their obligations. And it is not due to manufacturing issues or delays as the game is for sale already. This is truly grand theft. Taking people's money in exchange for a guarantee of goods and not giving us what we paid for is theft.

Buyer beware
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Jason Brown
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Welcome to Kickstarter...
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Pete
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...and you are beaming with pride, because as a backer, your investment helped bring this wonderful game into reality, and you have made the world a better place.

Pete (avoids kickstarter like the plague)
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Brad Miller
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Any well-established publishing company which uses KS should be shunned.

"You take the risk, we make the profit..."
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Andreas Krüger
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Queen games is not a good company in many regards. I heard retailers don't like to have their games, because you have to expect that they sell them at any moment to Toys R Us for 5€ when you paid 30€. I heard they forgot ("forgot"?) to pay royalties to their designers. I heard they don't care about their Kickstarters. I heard they had quality issues and it took months to get replacements.

I would not make any payments in advance to them.
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Steve B
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People still buy from Queen Games? Pretty sure there has been a long term boycott of their products by many people on BGG due to so many games having missing parts.
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Magic Pink
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MAJBrown22 wrote:
Welcome to Kickstarter...


It has nothing to do with Kickstarter. I back projects on there with no problem at all.

ALL of the Queen stuff I've backed has been rife with issues.
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Matt Brown
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bradelli wrote:
People still buy from Queen Games? Pretty sure there has been a long term boycott of their products by many people on BGG due to so many games having missing parts.


This is like a warning signal 2-3 years too late. If the OP looks around, they would see numerous posts and geeklist detailing how inept Queen Games is when running KS. I'm pretty sure them and Game Salute(outside of Keyflower related items) could do a rather close battle of who to avoid more when KS is involved.
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Chris Willett
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matthean wrote:
bradelli wrote:
People still buy from Queen Games? Pretty sure there has been a long term boycott of their products by many people on BGG due to so many games having missing parts.


This is like a warning signal 2-3 years too late. If the OP looks around, they would see numerous posts and geeklist detailing how inept Queen Games is when running KS. I'm pretty sure them and Game Salute(outside of Keyflower related items) could do a rather close battle of who to avoid more when KS is involved.


I got an Alhambra Big Box and a Kingdom Builder Big Box from Queen via kickstarter without any issues myself. It took a while, but I expect that from all kickstarters. Perhaps I was lucky? I don't know.

Either way, you gotta be careful with Kickstarter, it is an investment in their idea more than a preorder. If you want to preorder, then preorder. Board games have gone a weird way on Kickstarter, though, so I can see the leaning that way growing over time.

That said, $400 is a lot of money...
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Lluluien
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It makes me feel all warm and tingly to come in here and read posts from fellow BGGers full of generic Kickstarter hatred (not just games from Queen). I've gotten the impression here sometimes that I was the only lonely one that didn't participate.
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Angry Augury
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I've backed two Queen Games Kickstarters: Fresco Big Box and Shogun Big Box. They were both full of delays but they arrived. I got Shogun a few months back but it's in a different country so I can't check if everything is in place.

I know Queen caused a lot of grumbling because, as you said, they were way behind schedule, posted no updates yet started sending mails to us advertising their latest Kickstarter.

Still, in the end what I got arrived and, as I was in no huge rush to play, I was satisfied. I likely wouldn't support them if it was for something I wanted on time because I know that isn't going to happen. And, as someone else said, I find it a little distasteful that a big name company like that uses Kickstarter to fund their projects and they make a KILLING on the profit. Didn't stop my from backing the projects like a hypocrite, though.
 
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Jeff Rietveld
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Thamos von Nostria wrote:
Queen games is not a good company in many regards. I heard retailers don't like to have their games, because you have to expect that they sell them at any moment to Toys R Us for 5€ when you paid 30€. I heard they forgot ("forgot"?) to pay royalties to their designers. I heard they don't care about their Kickstarters. I heard they had quality issues and it took months to get replacements.

I would not make any payments in advance to them.

Retailer here.

I still stock most everything Queen, but in single copies in the poorer locations in the store. Queen has plenty of people who will gladly assume all risk, and they don't need me to increase demand.
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Chris Kohlman
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I backed the Gripmat almost three years ago from Break From Reality Games and I am still waiting for mine. Yours is just from January of this year to be delivered by June? That's not too bad considering my saga.
 
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Larry Rice
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I don't kickstart Queen Games any more. I can usually pick up what I want from retail later at similar cost or even less.
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Daniel Kearns
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Yup, Queen is horrible.
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J R
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Magic Pink wrote:
MAJBrown22 wrote:
Welcome to Kickstarter...


It has nothing to do with Kickstarter. I back projects on there with no problem at all.

ALL of the Queen stuff I've backed has been rife with issues.


It does if Kickstarter was notified of issues and continues to let Queen Games list new projects.

Check out the "What does this mean for Up Front?" thread for more Kickstarter shenanigans. Bottom line in that case- they were told that a creator had a legal judgment against them that would probably result in all the funds raised being seized by the court and didn't make them list it in the risks section, let alone pull the project.
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Eric Chiriboga
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They're a well established company, so I'm sure they didn't steal your money and the game will arrive eventually.
That said, Queen Games has notoriously bad customer service, so that's something to know.
 
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Andreas Krüger
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jetteraf wrote:
they were told that a creator had a legal judgment against them that would probably result in all the funds raised being seized by the court and didn't make them list it in the risks section, let alone pull the project.


They played a bit of a shell game as you remember which made it less clear than it appears now. In the very same thread, you will find dozens of well informed geeks who believed in the project. I am not sure how much evidence Kickstarter would need to get out of a contract with a company (although, admittedly, I am pretty certain that Kickstarter have something in their agreements that lets them terminate them without any explanations).
 
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David Chapman
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Magic Pink wrote:
MAJBrown22 wrote:
Welcome to Kickstarter...


It has nothing to do with Kickstarter. I back projects on there with no problem at all.

ALL of the Queen stuff I've backed has been rife with issues.


I've never had issues with Queen. I backed Fresco BB, Thebes and Tortuga and they all arrived fine and on schedule. But I haven't backed any of their projects in several years because I started hearing of regular issues from other people, because backing wasn't any cheaper than retail, and because they'd been talking up a plan to give people who backed five projects a free bonus game then quietly dropped it as backers got to five and began asking about it.
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I could be wrong, but probably not. I AM a Steve.
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Allen Park
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Moved to Queen Games: General
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Joey Nazzari
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jetteraf wrote:
Magic Pink wrote:
[q="MAJBrown22"]Welcome to Kickstarter...

It does if Kickstarter was notified of issues and continues to let Queen Games list new projects.

Check out the "What does this mean for Up Front?" thread for more Kickstarter shenanigans. Bottom line in that case- they were told that a creator had a legal judgment against them that would probably result in all the funds raised being seized by the court and didn't make them list it in the risks section, let alone pull the project.



Unless it is a licensing issue, something in their TOS, or they get a court order.KS does not take stuff down. People still can not get it through their heads that it's not a store, even if companies are using it like one.
 
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Simon Lundström
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Queen is (in)famous for having badly handled Kickstarters, but they are among the list of companies that gave me replacements for missing components (that I had misplaced!) quickly and without questions (game was Chicago Express).
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American in Chile
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We kickstarted the two Escape Big Boxes. Those aren't due until December. But you're right, the last update was June 29, and people are complaining in the comments.

According to one comment, the person who handles ks updates went on vacation, but was supposed to be back at the end of August, and get caught up with updates on all the campaigns.
 
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J R
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Thamos von Nostria wrote:
jetteraf wrote:
they were told that a creator had a legal judgment against them that would probably result in all the funds raised being seized by the court and didn't make them list it in the risks section, let alone pull the project.


They played a bit of a shell game as you remember which made it less clear than it appears now. In the very same thread, you will find dozens of well informed geeks who believed in the project. I am not sure how much evidence Kickstarter would need to get out of a contract with a company (although, admittedly, I am pretty certain that Kickstarter have something in their agreements that lets them terminate them without any explanations).

Sure the creators assured everyone that the judgement wouldn't effect the project, which to me is enough justification for KS to keep the listing but require something be put in the "Risks and Challenges" section rather than pull the project outright. KS did neither. They can pull a listing at any time for any reason they like under their TOS. In fact if you read the TOS, KS nicely words it to say that they have no obligation to anyone for anything- backers or creators.

captds9e wrote:
Unless it is a licensing issue, something in their TOS, or they get a court order.KS does not take stuff down. People still can not get it through their heads that it's not a store, even if companies are using it like one.

Which means one day it's going to come back and bite them. They enjoy the same general immunity from liability that sites like E-Bay do on the premise that they can't possibly know the details of every listing. That immunity evaporates if they do have specific knowledge about a listing/vendor and fail to take action. EBay removes any fake designer goods that come to its attention to for that very reason.

We've already seen state attorney generals go after KS projects that were fraudulent, it's only a matter of time until they roll KS itself into their suits when a few backers produce their e-mails to KS warning them of fraud on a project and they did nothing. KS has the deeper pockets after all.

Now, I'm not saying that Queen Games is committing fraud- their problem is the separate issue of established companies using KS to shift the risk for their production onto their customers, and then making fulfillment a bottom priority once they have the money in hand.
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Adam P
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Sorry about your troubles, I personally avoid backing Queen games (and most things) on KS. Try to contact Queen games this way:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1591845/missing-pieces-exce...

Quote:
I had great customer service from Lothar, who sent me the pieces I was missing!

If you are missing pieces, he is apparently the one who handles it. l.kothe@queen-games.de


Quote:
I got great customer service from Inga to have missing parts replaced for Edo and the Lancaster Big Box Kickstarter.
i.keutmann@queen-games.de

 
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