Last night I was playing a Death Knight vs. Death Knight game. I was doing a Ghoul build and she was playing a Disease build. I had Signet of the Impregnable Fortress equipped, which states "Heroes and allies you control have PROTECTOR. Each opposing hero and ally has -2 ATK on its controller's turn."
My question is this: since the disease cards read "ONGOING: At the start of your turn, your hero deals 1 shadow damage to attached hero, or 2 if there are no allies in its party." or other similar effects, would this -2 ATK to the Disease Hero's attack count for these cards too, since the disease cards state "Your Hero deal X damage" and the Signet of Impregnable Fortress states to decrease the damage the hero deals?
Have you looked in the FAQ? Where ever it might be on the internet at this point.
I would argue if it says you do X damage, YOU DO X DAMAGE outside of any atk. atk and damage aren't the same.
Man it's been a while since I played though.
Attack is only calculated when attacking. You can still deal damage outside of an attack with spells.
After going over the rules more in-depth, this is the conclusion I came to, too. There's the preventable and non-preventable damage. Both a Hero attacking and the diseases are preventable damage, though one is from the effect on the spell card and one is from the attack of the Hero herself.
Thanks to the two of you for your quick responses. I really wasn't expecting any sort of response with how long the game's been dead.
The other night we ruled it this way until I could figure it out more specifically, but it's good to know for sure in the future how it's supposed to be.
Just to throw some official rulings into the mix, here's the excerpts that led me to my conclusion:
405.3 Damage can be either dealt to or put on a character. If a modifier adds damage to a
character but doesn’t specify that it deals that damage, that damage is put on that character.
Damage that would be dealt to a character can be replaced and/or prevented (717). Damage
that would be put on a character can’t be replaced or prevented. A character can be dealt
damage in excess of its health, but damage can’t be put on a character in excess of its health.
If a modifier says to put more than fatal damage on a character, put exactly fatal damage on
Example: On resolution of Barnathrum’s effect, any additional damage is put on each ally because
the modifier doesn’t specify that it deals damage. If Barnathrum has 3 damage, only 1 more
damage is put on him, because damage can’t be put on him in excess of his health.
Barnathrum, Lord of Pain, 4, Alliance, Ally—Human Warlock, 3 [Shadow] / 4 Health
(1), [Activate] >>> Double the damage on each ally.
4 Damage that would be dealt is represented by packets (408) that are created either during
combat conclusion or by modifiers. Each modifier that would deal damage to one or more
characters creates a separate packet for each of those characters. If a modifier would deal 1
damage to a character “for each [thing],” it creates only one packet, not one packet for each
Example: You have one opponent who controls two allies and a hero. You play Frost Nova. As it
resolves, its modifier creates three packets of 1 frost damage each.
Frost Nova, 4, Mage, Instant Ability—Frost
Your hero deals 1 frost damage to each opposing hero and ally. A character dealt damage this way can’t attack
719.1 A continuous modifier depends on a second modifier if the presence of the second changes
which cards the first could apply to, or what result it could apply to them. A modifier that
adds to or subtracts from ATK applies a result only to cards that have an ATK value
(including 0). The same is true for DEF and health. Modifiers never depend on replacement
modifiers. Modifiers that don’t depend on any modifiers are “independent.”
Example: You control an “animated” Arcanite Dragonling and an opponent controls Breen
Toestubber. Breen’s modifier can potentially change the ATK value of cards in play, and the
Dragonling’s modifier can potentially change whether or not it itself has an ATK value, so Breen’s
modifier depends on the Dragonling’s. As a result, the Dragonling has 1 ATK, regardless of when
Breen entered play, and even if the Dragonling’s power is used again.
Arcanite Dragonling, 1, Equipment—Item, Trinket (2)
(1) >>> This item is also an ally with 2 [Melee] / 2 [Health] and Protector this turn.
Breen Toestubber, 5, Alliance, Ally—Gnome Warrior, 4 [Melee] / 5 Health
Opposing allies have -1 ATK.