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For the Crown Expansion #1: Shock & Awe» Forums » Rules

Subject: Does outpost count as giving an order? rss

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Alison Mandible
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Are the units picked up and moved by Outpost being given an order? The card didn't use any of the list of verbs given in the manual as indicating an order. But it seems really strong.
 
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Jeremy Lennert
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Outpost is an action, and therefore wouldn't count as an order no matter what verbs it used. Orders only happen during the order phase.

Can you give me an example of how you're using it that makes it seem strong?
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Alison Mandible
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Oh my. I've been playing this wrong.

I had thought any effect which caused a piece to deploy, march, attack, move, or swap (maybe I'm forgetting some?) counted as 'giving that piece an order', and this could only be done with each piece once per turn.

But since your comment didn't square with that, I just now looked back through the rulebook to check my beliefs, and I see that it's very explicit, for instance in the Consort section of 13.0, that a piece which has received an Order this turn can still be selected for an action. I guess in the base game this only affects... Consort and Subterfuge?

That's embarrassing.

Anyway, when I posted (mid-game) it seemed to me that, for instance, being able to deploy two pieces with Quartermaster and then relocate them both to the 2nd or 3rd rank (using a Heavy piece in the 2nd rank) on the same turn allowed for getting things into the fray ridiculously fast (especially with the ability to train a piece that same turn with the +1 Action). But I don't think it was helping me as much as I thought it was. I had just internalized the (apparently?) false idea that doing anything with a newly-deployed unit was defying the laws of physics.

Thank for the clarification. Assuming that I am understanding things correctly now.
 
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Jeremy Lennert
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grasa_total wrote:
I guess in the base game this only affects... Consort and Subterfuge?

Also Fog, Destiny, and Evangelism.

Using Outpost to move newly-deployed units forward a couple of ranks doesn't seem overpowering to me, but please let me know if it continues to be problematic for you.
 
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Alison Mandible
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Antistone wrote:
Using Outpost to move newly-deployed units forward a couple of ranks doesn't seem overpowering to me, but please let me know if it continues to be problematic for you.


I will, though I think a LOT of my valuations need to be reconsidered from scratch once I start playing with the correct rules.

For what it's worth, rereading the rulebook online, I think the culprit was this

Section 6.0 wrote:
An individual unit can only receive one order per turn (e.g., it cannot march and attack in a single turn, nor march twice nor attack twice; but see the Charger).


If I am now understanding correctly, a piece can in fact march twice in a turn; for instance, a Knight can march twice in a turn using a cardless Order to march once and then using Fog as an Action to march again.

I'm not saying the printed rules are wrong; the "e.g." makes that a fuzzy question, since the things in parentheses are totally examples of the rule "An individual unit can only receive one order per turn". But I think I misunderstood that section as meaning that the keywords March and Attack are Orders wherever they appear (even if you didn't pay an Order to do them, for instance because they are part of an Action effect).

If you ever revise the rules further (if I've now got it right!) and you wanted to forestall this mistake, I might change "per turn" to "per Orders phase", or else mention in section 7.0, as is mentioned in specific parts of 13.0, that Actions don't count as Orders and so don't invoke the "one order per piece per turn" rule even when they contain bolded words normally associated with orders. (But maybe nobody else would make the same mistake!)

Thanks again for the game and for being so responsive to forum questions about it!
 
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