Recommend
7 
 Thumb up
 Hide
82 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Chit Chat

Subject: Done with Star Trek rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Rob
United States
30° 12′ 38″ N, 95° 45′ 2″ W
flag msg tools
badge
You can't rob Peter, Paul and Mary to pay yourself.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sadly, I have to admit that I'm done with Star Trek as a unique and interesting franchise. It will now be one of dozens that compete for my attention. I've now seen three Abrams-led movies, and it's lost the vision and intellectual heft that Roddenberry gifted to us. Although the characters have a history and emotional tug, and can keep my attention for a couple hours, they are not any more compelling than the latest Marvel movie. However, for those interested, I can highly recommend the fan-produced Star Trek Continues - available on YouTube.

My interest and passion - and hope (see what I did there?) - now lie solely with Star Wars.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Norris
United States
Sacramento
California
flag msg tools
...and J-Pop too!!!!
badge
Raina rocks!!!!!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
And as you check out...save me your seat. I am finally getting into it because of the direction it has turned.

The only other movie I have liked was IV. II wasn't bad either. But IV was a masterpiece.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
The Count
United States
Sacramento
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sinister Dexter wrote:
Sadly, I have to admit that I'm done with Star Trek as a unique and interesting franchise. It will now be one of dozens that compete for my attention. I've now seen three Abrams-led movies, and it's lost the vision and intellectual heft that Roddenberry gifted to us. Although the characters have a history and emotional tug, and can keep my attention for a couple hours, they are not any more compelling than the latest Marvel movie. However, for those interested, I can highly recommend the fan-produced Star Trek Continues - available on YouTube.

My interest and passion - and hope (see what I did there?) - now lie solely with Star Wars.


Are you planning on giving Star Trek Discovery a look?
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Molnar
United States
Ridgewood
New Jersey
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sinister Dexter wrote:
I've now seen three Abrams-led movies,


Huh. I really don't even see grouping them together like that. I thought the first two were exciting, and the third (not directed by Abrams) was shit.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rob
United States
30° 12′ 38″ N, 95° 45′ 2″ W
flag msg tools
badge
You can't rob Peter, Paul and Mary to pay yourself.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
droberts441 wrote:
Are you planning on giving Star Trek Discovery a look?


To use a sports metaphor: that will be a game-time decision. When it premieres, I'll consider it evenly with all the other entertainment available.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Barry Harvey
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
I think that the heart of Star Trek is the characters and there's just not enough time in films to explore them all sufficiently. Everything in films has to be big, and explode, and threaten the destruction of the galaxy. Where is the downtime? Where are the routines and the quiet periods? Where is the building up of experience that happens in a series?

The new Star Trek films are reliant on us knowing the details of the characters from the (50 year old) franchise and then telling us how they're new and different. You can't have it both ways.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
¡dn ʇǝƃ ʇ,uɐɔ ı puɐ uǝllɐɟ ǝʌ,ı
Canada
Chestermere
Alberta
flag msg tools
badge
There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary: Those who do, and those who don't.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I gave up on Star Trek long ago. But I gave up on Star Wars long before that. So if it came down to the lesser of two evils, Star Trek would still win.

I have contentedly ignored all Star Trek/ Star Wars conundrums since the movie that introduced Jar Jar Binks, and the Star Trek after Spock was regenerated.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Isaac Citrom
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Hash, pot, and cookies will fix what ails'ya.
.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
☆ ✧ ☆ ✧ ☆
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Looking at these stars suddenly dwarfed my own troubles and all the gravities of terrestrial life. I thought of their unfathomable distance, and the slow inevitable drift of their movements out of the unknown past into the unknown future. H.G. Wells
badge
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. Chief Seattle
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sinister Dexter wrote:
My interest and passion...now lie solely with Star Wars.




9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mystery McMysteryface
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sinister Dexter wrote:
My interest and passion...now lie solely with Star Wars.
OMG, SinDex, you are so dead to me right now!!


6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Xander Fulton
United States
Astoria
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There is a lot to be said for having the right idea, and then having people who are better able to shape it into reality do that part.

I guess new fans to the series may be under the misunderstanding regarding how much it was Roddenberry, vs those around him, who ended up the most responsible for the feel of it - but I don't think many long-time fans would be. I mean, that the series was eager to pull in SciFi writers to give it depth is "common knowledge" - Harlon Ellison and Larry Niven both writing scripts for the series.

(And hell, it's a lesson even Star Wars could have learned - I am one of the few who likes the prequel movies better than Episode 7, but only because I feel that, when looking at the idea of the story for each movie, the prequels are FAR more interesting than 7 was. Of course, the execution of them was dreadful - anyone can see that. Mixed-quality casting, bad directing, dreadful dialog, etc. I like the *ideas* George Lucas was working with on the stories, but he really should have let someone else edit the scripts and shoot the things...so I can't really point to 'Star Wars' as being vastly better than 'Star Trek' in that regard. Both had good idea-men behind them, who were kinda awful at everything else.)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 Lucky Texan
United States
Arlington
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm a sci-fi fan, much of Star Trek was (not sure about recent movies...) sci-fi.

very little of Star Wars is sci-fi.

I enjoy them both.

(Herbert's book Dune is probably more important to how we now think of space-based sci-fi than either ST or SW)

and good point about movie vs TV series - hard to have "wagon train to the stars" in 2 hours.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Wesley
Nepal
Aberdeen
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mb
robot The 'seamy-steamy' "Fan-Fics" sordid-sort will even 're-depict' SUCH as: "The Trouble with TRIBBLES getting 'stuck' when you're OUT of Lubricant!"
goo ~"There's always T-I-M-E for 'lubricant'!"
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pieter
Netherlands
Maastricht
flag msg tools
Nobody is prefect.
badge
Good intentions are no substitute for a good education.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
caracfergus wrote:
I think that the heart of Star Trek is the characters

No, the heart of Star Trek is sitting around, discussing politics and philosophy. I am not kidding. It is what I love about Star Trek.

The only reason to have well-established characters is that you then no longer need to do any explaining of the characters. You know what they stand for. They can fulfill the role that they are assigned, and when they speak, you know their perspective.

Take Deep Space 9: that show overall has the weakest characters of all of Star Trek, but is best at presenting the uniqueness of Star Trek amongst television shows. It is not afraid to throw its characters into an unsolvable moral dilemma, and then let them fail at resolving it.

On the other hand, the worst of Star Trek is clearly all seasons of Voyager -- the show that wants to rival Star Wars in action, special effects, and shallowness, and thereby is not afraid to throw all logic and depth out of the window -- and before you say that in space you cannot throw things out of a window because, you know, space: Voyager would not have any problems in Captain Janeway opening a window to hang her laundry to dry .
6 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
¡dn ʇǝƃ ʇ,uɐɔ ı puɐ uǝllɐɟ ǝʌ,ı
Canada
Chestermere
Alberta
flag msg tools
badge
There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary: Those who do, and those who don't.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Flyboy Connor wrote:
caracfergus wrote:
I think that the heart of Star Trek is the characters

No, the heart of Star Trek is sitting around, discussing politics and philosophy. I am not kidding. It is what I love about Star Trek.

The only reason to have well-established characters is that you then no longer need to do any explaining of the characters. You know what they stand for. They can fulfill the role that they are assigned, and when they speak, you know their perspective.

Take Deep Space 9: that show overall has the weakest characters of all of Star Trek, but is best at presenting the uniqueness of Star Trek amongst television shows. It is not afraid to throw its characters into an unsolvable moral dilemma, and then let them fail at resolving it.

On the other hand, the worst of Star Trek is clearly all seasons of Voyager -- the show that wants to rival Star Wars in action, special effects, and shallowness, and thereby is not afraid to throw all logic and depth out of the window -- and before you say that in space you cannot throw things out of a window because, you know, space: Voyager would not have any problems in Captain Janeway opening a window to hang her laundry to dry .

Listen to this man. He knows of what he speaks!

DS9- Politics and intrigue.

Voyager- "Neelix, you kook! We can't stop for an alien vegetable that you want to use for dinner tonight. We're lost in space & time and, anyway, we must not be interfering with the internal development of alien civilizations. Hey! Whattayaknow-- there's a planet supporting life; let's go visit them, and screw them around, and interfere with the internal development of their civilization! That'll help us get home to our own timeline, right?"
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Lott
United States
Mason
Michigan
flag msg tools
Being a Lions fan is a gift...
badge
...and a curse.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If what you're looking for is vision and intellectual heft, then I'm mystified the Next Gen movies didn't already do this for you years ago.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Etkin
United States
Gloversville
New York
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
biddi biddi biddi
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drew1365 wrote:
Flyboy Connor wrote:
Take Deep Space 9: that show overall has the weakest characters of all of Star Trek,. . .


WHAT?!?!?!

DS9 not only had a well-developed cast of characters, it had well-developed secondary characters.

What did we learn about Ensign Kim in 7 years of Voyager? Uh . . . he played the clarinet?

And wasn't there a guy on Enterprise called Maywhoever? I think he had a line or two.

DS9 had actual characters. The other Trek series had plot puppets who existed to spout technobabble, and whose lines could have been given to pretty much anyone.

Geez.


I'm by no means a DS9 expert, but I generally agree with this. While I like TNG quite a bit, probably ranking it second to TOS in the franchise, TNG is pretty much a procedural - the recurring characters generally don't conflict, and dialog/motivations are generally interchangeable. Granted, you have Patrick "The Man" Stewart, which is pretty much like keeping a Ferrari parked in the garage, but even Picard didn't usually show a lot of conflict, unless it was internal (and most of this was acting versus writing) or vs. the antagonist of the week.

The procedural component is augmented even further in Voyager and Enterprise, the acting generally weaker, and the writing substantially weaker. The shows are formulaic, in the same was CSI, NCIS, Law and Order, ER, and a bazillion other cop/doctor/lawyer shows. They're comfort food. Viewers know what to expect each week. They don't want their TV family to conflict, unless it's in a predictable way.

DS9, OTOH, had characters with conflict and a higher writing benchmark. It wasn't a procedural. Granted, it was also the least "Star Trek like" of the shows.

I'm hoping Star Trek Discovery will add conflict to the standard "boldly go" paradigm, and I'm pretty certain it will, since ST in general is a bit of a dinosaur and the only way to update it successfully is to do that.

Then again - I'm really, really disappointed STD (ha) is another damn prequel. I want them to officially move past the TNG era, and there's so much they could do without catering to timeline expectations.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Agent J
United States
Coldwater
Michigan
flag msg tools
He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
badge
He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flat-foot who'll never flinch from a fray. He's got more than just mad skills, he's got a beaver tail and a bill.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I like Star Trek: TNG because of the politics and philosophy and the characters. Sure there was little conflict on the Enterprise itself, but... but... bah.

Maybe I should watch DS9.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Plainwell
Michigan
flag msg tools
el alcalde de GeekQuestions
badge
Et in Vantasia ego
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I shall rub your nose in this thread when the new series starts.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Xander Fulton
United States
Astoria
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drew1365 wrote:
Flyboy Connor wrote:
Take Deep Space 9: that show overall has the weakest characters of all of Star Trek,. . .


WHAT?!?!?!

DS9 not only had a well-developed cast of characters, it had well-developed secondary characters.

What did we learn about Ensign Kim in 7 years of Voyager? Uh . . . he played the clarinet?

And wasn't there a guy on Enterprise called Maywhoever? I think he had a line or two.

DS9 had actual characters. The other Trek series had plot puppets who existed to spout technobabble, and whose lines could have been given to pretty much anyone.

Geez.


Yup, this. I mean, seriously, Nog - Nog!

Hell, DS9 even found a way to give a story arc to the future version of a Roulette Croupier.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
If Actions Speak Louder Than Words, Then Actions x2 Speak Louder Than Actions
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
flag msg tools
badge
One of the Original Twelve
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Star Trek does three things really well:

1) Disguise sensitive topics within a story to deliver the medicine with the sugar and push the social dialogue forward. But is mostly preaching to the choir.
2) Be dumb. I wanted to create a podcast called "Stardate: One Week Later" that examines each episode of Star Trek from the viewpoint of a science vessel (USS Reaper?) that follows the Enterprise around from week to week and observes the utter chaos and destruction the Enterprise crew sows throughout the galaxy. Let's face it. The Feeders of Vaal died four days later in a starved, three-day sex romp. Dead. And satisfied.
3) Have next to no continuity. Is there money? Is there no money? In TOS, we hear of organizations with the UFOP that scratch a plot itch and have zero practical use beyond explaining why noun can't verb in this episode. Kirk has a brother (Shatner on ground with mustache) that he completely forgets about after George's death (or at least by Star Trek V: Shatner Wrote This).

The movies are pretty damn close to the original series in how faithful they are to nothing.

I love Star Trek. It is so ridiculously awesomely ridiculous. And awesome.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
If Actions Speak Louder Than Words, Then Actions x2 Speak Louder Than Actions
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
flag msg tools
badge
One of the Original Twelve
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
And another thing!

We have proof that the 23rd century ain't all it is cracked up to be. Tasha Yar. Where the hell within the Federation did she grow up that was such a catastrophic failure socially?

Between TOS and TNG some serious shit went down during those 70 years...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Xander Fulton
United States
Astoria
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
joebelanger wrote:
We have proof that the 23rd century ain't all it is cracked up to be. Tasha Yar. Where the hell within the Federation did she grow up that was such a catastrophic failure socially?


She didn't - her background was established as being from a failed colony. So...not part of the Federation.

joebelanger wrote:
3) Have next to no continuity. Is there money? Is there no money? In TOS, we hear of organizations with the UFOP that scratch a plot itch and have zero practical use beyond explaining why noun can't verb in this episode. Kirk has a brother (Shatner on ground with mustache) that he completely forgets about after George's death (or at least by Star Trek V: Shatner Wrote This).


Continuity RE: technology is much worse. I mean, what exactly can the transporter DO, anyway? De-age people? Sometimes merge them together, sometimes not? etc.

(Still, the money thing between TOS and TNG is not hard to follow - I mean, TOS was reasonably forward-looking already, but TNG is another nearly 100 years later, so...plenty of time for money to become even less important. Yet, even with 'no money'...there is still private ownership of things. Picard's archaeological collection, Sisko's father's restaurant in New Orleans, etc. So even with no money, it's not a Socialist Utopia...although one wonders how exactly that works. Like...Joseph Sisko is just cooking for the public for fun? If he is terrible at it, why do people bother to come? If, as implied, he's amazing at it - how do you determine what people get to eat there, and when, if there are no prices that could limit an audience? Especially given transporters existing, meaning literally EVERYONE in the galaxy could as easily show up for dinner...waiting list on that place would surely be a few lifetimes long, no??)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Agent J
United States
Coldwater
Michigan
flag msg tools
He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
badge
He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flat-foot who'll never flinch from a fray. He's got more than just mad skills, he's got a beaver tail and a bill.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
XanderF wrote:
joebelanger wrote:
We have proof that the 23rd century ain't all it is cracked up to be. Tasha Yar. Where the hell within the Federation did she grow up that was such a catastrophic failure socially?


She didn't - her background was established as being from a failed colony. So...not part of the Federation.

joebelanger wrote:
3) Have next to no continuity. Is there money? Is there no money? In TOS, we hear of organizations with the UFOP that scratch a plot itch and have zero practical use beyond explaining why noun can't verb in this episode. Kirk has a brother (Shatner on ground with mustache) that he completely forgets about after George's death (or at least by Star Trek V: Shatner Wrote This).


Continuity RE: technology is much worse. I mean, what exactly can the transporter DO, anyway? De-age people? Sometimes merge them together, sometimes not? etc.

(Still, the money thing between TOS and TNG is not hard to follow - I mean, TOS was reasonably forward-looking already, but TNG is another nearly 100 years later, so...plenty of time for money to become even less important. Yet, even with 'no money'...there is still private ownership of things. Picard's archaeological collection, Sisko's father's restaurant in New Orleans, etc. So even with no money, it's not a Socialist Utopia...although one wonders how exactly that works. Like...Joseph Sisko is just cooking for the public for fun? If he is terrible at it, why do people bother to come? If, as implied, he's amazing at it - how do you determine what people get to eat there, and when, if there are no prices that could limit an audience? Especially given transporters existing, meaning literally EVERYONE in the galaxy could as easily show up for dinner...waiting list on that place would surely be a few lifetimes long, no??)


There are obviously ranks and things you're not allowed to do, supposedly based on merit or experience. Starfleet certainly doesn't accept every applicant... in fact they have a rather horrible system for determining who can join, based on the test and only one gets in method, when two of the applicants could certainly be worth training - and likely are. But, no, we're only taking one, even if both of you are better than some of Starfleet.

So I assume there is some similar merit test for reservations, with those with the most refined palates getting first pick.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pieter
Netherlands
Maastricht
flag msg tools
Nobody is prefect.
badge
Good intentions are no substitute for a good education.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drew1365 wrote:
Flyboy Connor wrote:
Take Deep Space 9: that show overall has the weakest characters of all of Star Trek,. . .


WHAT?!?!?!

DS9 not only had a well-developed cast of characters, it had well-developed secondary characters.

Maybe I did not express myself well.

What I meant is that none of the DS9 characters stood out as a show carrier.

TNG had Picard and Data -- without those two, TNG would suck, but they pull it out of the pits.

Voyager had Seven -- brought on the show as Borg Babe but in the end proving to be a show carrier.

TOS has Spock and Kirk.

But none of the DS9 characters carries the show. They are probably the most balanced crew all around.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.