Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
44 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Pandemic: Reign of Cthulhu» Forums » General

Subject: Disapointed with the brazilian version rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Paulo Segundo
Brazil
Belem
Para
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Hi guys, I know some of you will think this is a minnor trouble,and that I'm whinning for nothing, but I'm very disapointed with the brazilian version of this wonderfull game, where I put my hard earned money.

My discontent goes towards the translation of the terms of the game. They did a very lame translation, in point of changing critical terms of the game. As an example, They translated "cultists" as "adoradores". In portuguese, cultista is the correct translation for cultist (is an easy translation, btw), but the Translator thougt he could do best by naming cultist as adoradores (wich is the translation for " whorshiperes").

As I said, some of you may thnik it's a minnor trouble, but I wanted this game since it was announced, I waited everyday for it release in portuguese. And now I'm extremely frustrated. So I put it to sell whithout even oppening the box.

Now I'll have to buy the english version, pay shipping, taxes and import fees and wait several months for brazilian customs to procces their bureaucracy to play the game whithout getting upset by the sh*tty work Devir Games (brazilian producer of the game) did with tittle.

Sorry for the long post.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Susan
United States
Mesa
Arizona
flag msg tools
www.Meetup.com/ArizonaGames
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Are there more things wrong with the version other than the rule book?

Cuz once I learn how to play a game I almost never look at the rule book again. Couldn't you just print off the english rule book and call it a day?

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin B. Smith
United States
Morro Bay
California
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
That is a bummer, but I'm curious why that word is so important to you. If the English version had called them "worshipers", I wouldn't have minded. Perhaps the words have some cultural meaning in Portuguese, or perhaps you're more into Lovecraft than I am. I'm really just curious.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paulo Segundo
Brazil
Belem
Para
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
isellsunshine wrote:
Are there more things wrong with the version other than the rule book?

Cuz once I learn how to play a game I almost never look at the rule book again. Couldn't you just print off the english rule book and call it a day?



The rulebook isnt the problem. The problem are the cards. Why would I buy a game if I had to reprint the cards by myself 'cos there are translation error in them (and the producer will say there are no errors because cultistas and whorshipper are sinonimous). No, They are not the same thing
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paulo Segundo
Brazil
Belem
Para
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
peakhope wrote:
That is a bummer, but I'm curious why that word is so important to you. If the English version had called them "worshipers", I wouldn't have minded. Perhaps the words have some cultural meaning in Portuguese, or perhaps you're more into Lovecraft thjkan I am. I'm really just curious.


If the english version had called it whorshiper, then the brazilian version would be correct at this point. But it did not.

At least in portuguese, cultist and whorshiper have different meanings and are used at different things. At all, why the brazilian Translator had decided to change by his head so ubíquos lovecrafitian term is beyond my reasoning
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Randy Espinoza
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
paulsecond wrote:
isellsunshine wrote:
Are there more things wrong with the version other than the rule book?

Cuz once I learn how to play a game I almost never look at the rule book again. Couldn't you just print off the english rule book and call it a day?



The rulebook isnt the problem. The problem are the cards. Why would I buy a game if I had to reprint the cards by myself 'cos there are translation error in them (and the producer will say there are no errors because cultistas and whorshipper are sinonimous). No, They are not the same thing
I still don't understand why you call it an "error". Cultists, worshippers, isn't that all the same? In Spanish the word "cultista" is rarely (if ever) used, I would have gone with "adoradores" also if translating it.

I think you have a weird attachment to the word "cultist" maybe as a fan of the Cthulhu mythos.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paulo Segundo
Brazil
Belem
Para
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Espinoza wrote:
paulsecond wrote:
isellsunshine wrote:
Are there more things wrong with the version other than the rule book?

Cuz once I learn how to play a game I almost never look at the rule book again. Couldn't you just print off the english rule book and call it a day?



The rulebook isnt the problem. The problem are the cards. Why would I buy a game if I had to reprint the cards by myself 'cos there are translation error in them (and the producer will say there are no errors because cultistas and whorshipper are sinonimous). No, They are not the same thing
I still don't understand why you call it an "error". Cultists, worshippers, isn't that all the same? I think you have a weird attachment to the word "cultist" maybe as a fan of the Cthulhu mythos.


No, they are not the same thing. Apples and oranges are both fruits, but you can't call an apple as orange and say, "hey, it's the same thing.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sal
United States
-
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Do you find it offensive that they used the word 'adoradores'? I would understand your frustration if that is the case.

If not, call them whatever you want when you actually play. It's just a minor quirky translation, at most.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marcio Ferreira
Portugal
Viana do Castelo
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
paulsecond wrote:
Espinoza wrote:
paulsecond wrote:
isellsunshine wrote:
Are there more things wrong with the version other than the rule book?

Cuz once I learn how to play a game I almost never look at the rule book again. Couldn't you just print off the english rule book and call it a day?



The rulebook isnt the problem. The problem are the cards. Why would I buy a game if I had to reprint the cards by myself 'cos there are translation error in them (and the producer will say there are no errors because cultistas and whorshipper are sinonimous). No, They are not the same thing
I still don't understand why you call it an "error". Cultists, worshippers, isn't that all the same? I think you have a weird attachment to the word "cultist" maybe as a fan of the Cthulhu mythos.


No, they are not the same thing. Apples and oranges are both fruits, but you can't call an apple as orange and say, "hey, it's the same thing.


Hi!

I wouldn't say that it's like apples and oranges, but indeed, Cultistas e Adoradores have a different (I wouldn't say meaning) context. Normally Cultistas are worshipers of something unatural/not normal. It's like Cult versus Religion. Almos the same yet very different.

@Paulo, could it be due to some literary translationo of Lovecraft stories wher cultists had been translated to 'adoradores', if not then it's really a lousy work from the translators.

I can understand you for not wanting the translated game anymore. For myself I really prefer to play games in english rather than translatted, because many times things are lost in translation.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paulo Segundo
Brazil
Belem
Para
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
goryon wrote:
paulsecond wrote:
Espinoza wrote:
paulsecond wrote:
isellsunshine wrote:
Are there more things wrong with the version other than the rule book?

Cuz once I learn how to play a game I almost never look at the rule book again. Couldn't you just print off the english rule book and call it a day?



The rulebook isnt the problem. The problem are the cards. Why would I buy a game if I had to reprint the cards by myself 'cos there are translation error in them (and the producer will say there are no errors because cultistas and whorshipper are sinonimous). No, They are not the same thing
I still don't understand why you call it an "error". Cultists, worshippers, isn't that all the same? I think you have a weird attachment to the word "cultist" maybe as a fan of the Cthulhu mythos.


No, they are not the same thing. Apples and oranges are both fruits, but you can't call an apple as orange and say, "hey, it's the same thing.


Hi!

I wouldn't say that it's like apples and oranges, but indeed, Cultistas e Adoradores have a different (I wouldn't say meaning) context. Normally Cultistas are worshipers of something unatural/not normal. It's like Cult versus Religion. Almos the same yet very different.

@Paulo, could it be due to some literary translationo of Lovecraft stories wher cultists had been translated to 'adoradores', if not then it's really a lousy work from the translators.

I can understand you for not wanting the translated game anymore. For myself I really prefer to play games in english rather than translatted, because many times things are lost in translation.


Well I read a lot of lovecraft works (I'm a fan) in brazilian portuguese translation and I never read the term " adorador" to discribe a cultist...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paulo Segundo
Brazil
Belem
Para
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
So, lets do a small exercise of comparison. For the argument sake, lets pretend George Lucas was mexican and all star wars universo wars conceived in spanish.

For the last 30 Years you have been reading books, playing games and whatching star wars movies in their english translations.

You know there is the Empire and the Rebels, darth vader, Luke Skywalker and so on...

There is a new board game, Empire vs Rebelion that you is expecting and very eager to play. So, you spend your hard earned money (by USA standars, 40 Bucks is cheap, but in Brasil BGs are very expensive, like if a minimun wage worker spend all his montly payment he could buy only 3 Empire vs Rebelion games) and you open the box and realize the english Translator had decide to translate the rebels as "the anarchists".

So you send an e-mail to the producer of the game complaining about this error and they say that rebels and anarchists are synonims, because they both fight against the system.

Now you can start to feel how I'm disapointed and frustrated about the brazilian translation of Pandemic Reign of Cthulhu wich choose to translate " cultist" as "Whorshiper".
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Davi Rosa
Brazil
Brasília
DF
flag msg tools
From the Dungeons and Dragons 80's cartoon. If only it was remade...
mbmbmbmbmb
The word "cultist" is indded more iconic, but I am Brazilian, live in Brazil, own the Brazilin Portuguese and do not mind one bit. I think that the word does serve the purpose.
As others have noted, once you start playing the game, you do not look at those words again, so it doesn't bother me - it is not like Eldritch -horror, where you are constantly reading very thematic texts.
Finally, as you have noted yourself, this is a small issue, which may not even bother most people, so it is up to you if this is a dealbreaker or something to be overlooked (and to bother to pick an English copy, paying all those taxes, that is beyond me).



As a side note, I don't think the cultist/workshiper difference is as big as rebel/anarchist
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ぶる ぶるっ
msg tools
Night fell and the hours dragged on, but still we murmured to each other of the King and the Pallid Mask, and midnight sounded from the misty spires in the fog-wrapped city.
badge
We spoke of Hastur and of Cassilda, while outside the fog rolled against the blank window-panes as the cloud waves roll and break on the shores of Hali.
mbmbmbmbmb
paulsecond wrote:
So you send an e-mail to the producer of the game complaining about this error and they say that rebels and anarchists are synonims, because they both fight against the system.

... anarchist scum!
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Johnson
United Kingdom
Derby
Derbyshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Due to the nuances of language I would imagine this is something only Brazilians could argue over. I am told Brazilian Portuguese is actually quite removed from Iberian Portuguese - more so than most versions of English for example.

Certainly in English, Cultist, Worshipper and say Monk or Vicar have a quite different feel to them.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin B. Smith
United States
Morro Bay
California
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
To the OP:

1. I appreciate you starting this thread, because other people might feel the same way you do, and this will warn them.

2. Personally I still don't understand why that word choice is upsetting to you. But it is. I accept that. And for that you have my sympathies about feeling like you need to buy a different edition.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paulo Segundo
Brazil
Belem
Para
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
peakhope wrote:
To the OP:

1. I appreciate you starting this thread, because other people might feel the same way you do, and this will warn them.

2. Personally I still don't understand why that word choice is upsetting to you. But it is. I accept that. And for that you have my sympathies about feeling like you need to buy a different edition.


Thank you for your kind words!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jessica
United States
Oklahoma
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I find it odd that people don't seem to understand the fundamental difference between cultists and worshipers. They are certainly not the same thing- besides the fact that cultists are the appropriate term for use with the Cthulhu mythos, cultist also implies something far more ominous than does the term 'worshiper'. In general, being a cultist is usually seen as a negative thing, versus being a worshiper usually just means that you follow a religion. That's why it seems odd to me that they would go for a more 'umbrella term' for the translation, rather than cultista which is specific, fits the theme, and is a direct translation... Perhaps whoever translated was not familiar with the theme? (Although why they wouldn't use a word that directly translates is still weird...)

Personally, I can't say whether that'd bother me enough to insist on getting a copy from another language, especially after having already purchased one. Your situation, no offense intended, seems silly to me when I think about it, since it's just a simple word! Besides having to see it on just a couple of the cards, it has essentially no bearing on the gameplay at all. There's only a few cards that even have the word 'cultist' on; except for those and your initial reading of the rules, you only deal with them during the summoning step and when you roll the insanity dice. You'd hardly ever see the offending word. But, I've also never been on the receiving end of such a bizarre, and apparent, mistranslation that sticks out as badly as that either- It'd probably annoy the heck out of me too!

If getting a new copy makes you happy, then do so! It's a shame the Brazilian copy has such an annoying error, but I hope you can get a copy to play soon! The game is really fun!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paulo Segundo
Brazil
Belem
Para
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Brunnstag wrote:
I find it odd that people don't seem to understand the fundamental difference between cultists and worshipers. They are certainly not the same thing- besides the fact that cultists are the appropriate term for use with the Cthulhu mythos, cultist also implies something far more ominous than does the term 'worshiper'. In general, being a cultist is usually seen as a negative thing, versus being a worshiper usually just means that you follow a religion. That's why it seems odd to me that they would go for a more 'umbrella term' for the translation, rather than cultista which is specific, fits the theme, and is a direct translation... Perhaps whoever translated was not familiar with the theme? (Although why they wouldn't use a word that directly translates is still weird...)

Personally, I can't say whether that'd bother me enough to insist on getting a copy from another language, especially after having already purchased one. Your situation, no offense intended, seems silly to me when I think about it, since it's just a simple word! Besides having to see it on just a couple of the cards, it has essentially no bearing on the gameplay at all. There's only a few cards that even have the word 'cultist' on; except for those and your initial reading of the rules, you only deal with them during the summoning step and when you roll the insanity dice. You'd hardly ever see the offending word. But, I've also never been on the receiving end of such a bizarre, and apparent, mistranslation that sticks out as badly as that either- It'd probably annoy the heck out of me too!

If getting a new copy makes you happy, then do so! It's a shame the Brazilian copy has such an annoying error, but I hope you can get a copy to play soon! The game is really fun!


Hi Jessica, thanks for your comprehension about the translation error.

No offense taken, maybe i'm really been silly to complain about this, but, as you said yourself, you had never been in such bizarre situation. And this error is really annoying me.

I just don't want to print some correction and past up at the cards, Like a friend of mine did with his smash up cards
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin B. Smith
United States
Morro Bay
California
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Brunnstag wrote:
I find it odd that people don't seem to understand the fundamental difference between cultists and worshipers. They are certainly not the same thing- besides the fact that cultists are the appropriate term for use with the Cthulhu mythos, cultist also implies something far more ominous than does the term 'worshiper'. In general, being a cultist is usually seen as a negative thing, versus being a worshiper usually just means that you follow a religion.

Yes, except that the term "cult" has been applied to the Branch Davidians, the Church of Scientology, the Mormon (LDS) church, and the Catholic church. Most people would probably apply it to at least one of those, but most people probably wouldn't apply it to all of them.

To me, that says that the term is really subjective. And more importantly, it is specifically used as an insult, rather than as an objective descriptor. As a result, and not being familiar with any of Lovecraft's source material, I'm guessing that the Cthulhu "cultists" might prefer to call themselves "worshipers".

I guess what I'm saying is that the fundamental difference between "cultist" and "worshiper" is in the eye of the beholder. And with that, I fear we are on the verge of RSP territory.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Johnson
United Kingdom
Derby
Derbyshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
peakhope wrote:
Brunnstag wrote:
I find it odd that people don't seem to understand the fundamental difference between cultists and worshipers. They are certainly not the same thing- besides the fact that cultists are the appropriate term for use with the Cthulhu mythos, cultist also implies something far more ominous than does the term 'worshiper'. In general, being a cultist is usually seen as a negative thing, versus being a worshiper usually just means that you follow a religion.

Yes, except that the term "cult" has been applied to the Branch Davidians, the Church of Scientology, the Mormon (LDS) church, and the Catholic church. Most people would probably apply it to at least one of those, but most people probably wouldn't apply it to all of them.

To me, that says that the term is really subjective. And more importantly, it is specifically used as an insult, rather than as an objective descriptor. As a result, and not being familiar with any of Lovecraft's source material, I'm guessing that the Cthulhu "cultists" might prefer to call themselves "worshipers".

I guess what I'm saying is that the fundamental difference between "cultist" and "worshiper" is in the eye of the beholder. And with that, I fear we are on the verge of RSP territory.


RSP territory? Is that in America?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paulo Segundo
Brazil
Belem
Para
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
peakhope wrote:

I guess what I'm saying is that the fundamental difference between "cultist" and "worshiper" is in the eye of the beholder. And with that, I fear we are on the verge of RSP territory.


Eye of the Beholder... Ops different franchise here laugh

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Johnson
United Kingdom
Derby
Derbyshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
paulsecond wrote:
peakhope wrote:

I guess what I'm saying is that the fundamental difference between "cultist" and "worshiper" is in the eye of the beholder. And with that, I fear we are on the verge of RSP territory.


Eye of the Beholder... Ops different franchise here :laugh:



RSP stand for Eye of the Beholder?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jessica
United States
Oklahoma
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
peakhope wrote:
Brunnstag wrote:
I find it odd that people don't seem to understand the fundamental difference between cultists and worshipers. They are certainly not the same thing- besides the fact that cultists are the appropriate term for use with the Cthulhu mythos, cultist also implies something far more ominous than does the term 'worshiper'. In general, being a cultist is usually seen as a negative thing, versus being a worshiper usually just means that you follow a religion.

Yes, except that the term "cult" has been applied to the Branch Davidians, the Church of Scientology, the Mormon (LDS) church, and the Catholic church. Most people would probably apply it to at least one of those, but most people probably wouldn't apply it to all of them.

To me, that says that the term is really subjective. And more importantly, it is specifically used as an insult, rather than as an objective descriptor. As a result, and not being familiar with any of Lovecraft's source material, I'm guessing that the Cthulhu "cultists" might prefer to call themselves "worshipers".

I guess what I'm saying is that the fundamental difference between "cultist" and "worshiper" is in the eye of the beholder. And with that, I fear we are on the verge of RSP territory.


True, but I'd think in general you'd go from the point of view of the 'good guys' (the player characters) when naming the villains, thus they'd still be cultists, since cultist has the more negative term (and it is actually called a cult in the stories I believe, but not positive). I suppose the cultists themselves might think themselves simple worshipers, but seeing as they are using evil gateways to release vicious creatures that intend to rip the world asunder and induce madness by their mere proximity, I don't think it's really up to them what they get called! laugh

I can see where the translator may not be familiar with the stories that the game's theme is associated with, and since translating between languages is often subjective because some words or phrases simply can't carry over, it could have been lost in translation. It just seems odd they would still choose to change it to another word when they could literally translate 'cultist' directly into 'cultista'. Why change it arbitrarily? To me, that's just a bad translation, because I'd expect the translator to do a tiny bit of research so they can adequately capture the proper mood. Even just a quick google search would tell you that cultist is the more appropriate term for the subject matter. I just don't feel that the subjectiveness of the word cultist is enough to warrant it's being changed when a direct translation from the original exists. It was an odd choice to make.

EDIT: Unless of course this is some sort of a censorship issue specifically! I'm not familiar enough with Brazil to know. But judging from the original post I wouldn't think so.

paulsecond wrote:

Hi Jessica, thanks for your comprehension about the translation error.

No offense taken, maybe i'm really been silly to complain about this, but, as you said yourself, you had never been in such bizarre situation. And this error is really annoying me.

I just don't want to print some correction and past up at the cards, Like a friend of mine did with his smash up cards


Oh my, that would drive me nuts too! I think getting a new copy is definitely the way to go!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paulo Segundo
Brazil
Belem
Para
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
infectedeggs wrote:
paulsecond wrote:
peakhope wrote:

I guess what I'm saying is that the fundamental difference between "cultist" and "worshiper" is in the eye of the beholder. And with that, I fear we are on the verge of RSP territory.


Eye of the Beholder... Ops different franchise here laugh



RSP stand for Eye of the Beholder?


I dont know what RSP means... And at this point I'm too afraid to ask (insert afraid Andy meme here)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francisco Gutierrez
United States
Burbank
California
flag msg tools
"A pilot's greatest virtue is to know when to run" -- "What's this, a joke?"
mbmbmbmbmb
So I can't claim to have read the Portuguese Translation of "The Call of Cthulhu", but I've read it in English, and I can confidently say you are splitting hairs.

"Cult" and "Cultist" appear more often than "Worshiper", but both terms are used interchangeably in the story, particularly when describing the Cthulhu Worshipers in the swamp. Shoot, the term "cult-worshiper" is used once.

Both words should be equally acceptable if you are using the original work as a point of reference



9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.